A few issues regarding my battle system...

[the drizzle]

I have a couple of issues with my game regarding its battle system, which is complicated (at least I think) and might be difficult for the user.

My battle system is similar to an MMORPG in that it is Threat based. The basic premise is, each hero's attack will cause them to gain threat and he who has the most threat gets attacked.

Each hero has a role that they accomplish in battle. Here's a brief breakdown of the heroes and each of their roles:

Yasuo He's a "tank." He controls his own threat and keep it higher than other players. He's the most effective at managing threat. Damage dealing is average.
Lumina Healer. Main purpose is to heal and generates a good amount of threat in the process.
Kirsch A tank/healer. His tanking and healing are inferior to Yasuo and Lumina respectively, but he provides a good mix.
Rasp Does purely physical damage. Very high damage output.
Catara Does purely magic damage. Highest damage output.
Typhon He's a different class that I like to call a Pacemaker. He can alter speeds, stun enemies, and interrupt casts.
Elias He's a summoner. He's capable of summoning creatures that can fulfill the roles of the others (though not very well). Can summon a tank, physical damager, magical damager, healer, and pacemaker.

Each character has one free ability, six standard MP-based ability, and one special ability that can only be used every 3-5 minutes.

Issue #1: The utility of the Pacemaker in the battle

Ok, I'm struggling with the ways to make this character more useful without making him overpowered. These are his attacks.

Free - Dodge (raises Ddg)
1. Haste - speeds up character slightly
2. Slow - slows down character slightly
3. Short spread stun
4. Longer focused stun
5. Disrupt - cancels an enemy's attack if they are casting
6. Mute - prevents casting
Special - Stop time - stuns every other character for 10 seconds except himself.

Disrupt has potential to be overpowered/abused so it only works on magic attacks and has high MP cost and threat generation. But my problem is that I want the player to be able to know when an enemy is casting so that Disrupt can be used effectively. Any ideas on this? Or is it better for the player not to know. I want timing to be his hallmark, so which is preferable?

Issue #2: Explaining the battle system

The second problem I have is explaining the battle system to the player. This battle system is radically different than the final fantasy ATB type of battle system. I have a laundry list of things that need to be explained such as:

- How some stats in this game operate differently than in other games
- Threat and how it works (inc. the threat multiplier)
- Each character's unique role
- The finer points of each characters abilities
- How the summoning system works including how to summon and how they work
- Spell casting and the vulnerability to interrupt
- Running (I have two separate runs for different characters)
- Certain items that players would be unfamiliar with
- Free abilities
- Special abilities usable once every 3-5 minutes
- Unique method of learning new abilities
- the lack of stat increases on level up
- Encumbrance (player cannot move if any character's encumbrance is 0. Each equipable item has its own weight which lowers the encumbrance number.)
- Enemies don't drop money. Some enemies will drop items but this will not be the main way to make money and those items will basically be useless junk to sell.
- Most weapons don't effect stats but have other differences.

And this is just what needs to be explained regarding battles. There's also out of battle abilities, transportation, making money, the day-night cycle, the journal, the city map (there's only one city), each characters morality level, saving, recovery, death and its penalties... the list goes on.

Explaining this all at the same time, especially early in the game would be both annoying and overwhelming. I'm certain that much of this could be left to the in-game manual, item descriptions, or attack descriptions. But this method is boring and it doesn't guarantee the player will see it.

What should be explained through a demo and what should be left in the manual? (At least, what would you think based on this list)

(More will probably be added to these issues as I figure them out)

[Twinconclusive]

Disrupt has potential to be overpowered/abused so it only works on magic attacks and has high MP cost and threat generation. But my problem is that I want the player to be able to know when an enemy is casting so that Disrupt can be used effectively. Any ideas on this? Or is it better for the player not to know. I want timing to be his hallmark, so which is preferable?

I really don't think Disrupt would be any stronger than a Stun.
And if you're planning on using attacks to stop the target's attack, you would definitely want some sort of alert coming from the enemy.

I would plan to use this to disrupt enemy attack chains, rather than single attacks. (This would probably waste enemy resources, whereas stuns would keep them preserved)
Imagine an enemy with an incredibly high defense, but he damages himself to attack the heroes for incredibly high damage.
Stopping the chain after he hurts himself would prove to be a very valuable live-saver!

What should be explained through a demo and what should be left in the manual? (At least, what would you think based on this list)

If a player has to read a manual to play a game, I think that something is wrong.
Adding in-game tutorials is usually pretty cool (Blacking the screen out, having a little sprite walk on to ask if the player would like to learn about a specific mechanic).

On a side note, Kirsch seems really useless :/
Unless Lumina is really squishy, I don't really see a need to ever use him.
The summoner is very intriguing, though.

This stuff sounds great and I'm looking forward to more!

[Mogri]

Disrupt: If you're looking to make it useful without revealing every spell before it's cast (which would itself be a little odd), how about making every charged attack a two-parter? The first attack shows a "charging" animation without displaying any caption and the second attack is the normal attack effect. You know when Disrupt will do something, but you don't know what you're interrupting. The first attack needs to have the MP cost.

You'll also want to make charged attacks A) charge long enough to be interruptible and B) powerful enough to be worth interrupting.

Explaining: Nothing should only be in the manual. But you don't have to explain everything, either. Let me analyze these case-by-case.

- How some stats in this game operate differently than in other games
- Threat and how it works (inc. the threat multiplier)

The player doesn't need to know about these right away. If I were designing the game, I might have a discussion before the first boss battle where Yasuo says, "Don't worry, I'll protect you with my [Guard] ability!" It's hokey, but it communicates the necessary information to the player without boring him. Stats can do something similar. Maybe an NPC says something like, "I keep getting picked on by the monsters. If only my threat multiplier were lower..."

- Each character's unique role
- The finer points of each characters abilities
- How the summoning system works including how to summon and how they work
- Spell casting and the vulnerability to interrupt
- Free abilities

Let the player figure these out. If necessary, provide helpful dialogue like the examples above to indicate how an ability should be used.

- Encumbrance (player cannot move if any character's encumbrance is 0. Each equipable item has its own weight which lowers the encumbrance number.)

Same. Maybe display a message when the player is overencumbered (or maybe just the first time).

- Running (I have two separate runs for different characters)

In Super Metroid, when you acquire an ability, you get a brief message telling you how to use it. You could do the same when those characters join.

- Certain items that players would be unfamiliar with
- Most weapons don't effect stats but have other differences.
- Enemies don't drop money. Some enemies will drop items but this will not be the main way to make money and those items will basically be useless junk to sell.

Item descriptions are your friend. You don't have a lot of room there, but you should still be able to convey the necessary information.

- Special abilities usable once every 3-5 minutes
- Unique method of learning new abilities
- the lack of stat increases on level up

I'd have to know more about your game to tell you what to do with these, but follow the above examples: go with an in-game explanation if one is required. Use NPCs to drop gameplay hints and nudge the player towards the intended answers.

[Twinconclusive]

- Each character's unique role
- The finer points of each characters abilities
- How the summoning system works including how to summon and how they work
- Spell casting and the vulnerability to interrupt
- Free abilities

You could also try adding those old Backdrops of Character Descriptions to convey their specialties (This could probably go into the main menu).

- Certain items that players would be unfamiliar with
- Most weapons don't effect stats but have other differences.
- Enemies don't drop money. Some enemies will drop items but this will not be the main way to make money and those items will basically be useless junk to sell.

Equipment can still be given functions, so you can have them open textboxes when used or something.

If you're really concerned, I might recommend just adding a general help menu accessible from the main menu.
This might be tedious to set up, but I think it would be suitable enough.

[the drizzle]

I would plan to use this to disrupt enemy attack chains, rather than single attacks. (This would probably waste enemy resources, whereas stuns would keep them preserved)

This is a great idea. I think I might go in this direction and have the enemies that deal major damage do it through attack chains with delays long enough to interrupt.

On a side note, Kirsch seems really useless :/
Unless Lumina is really squishy, I don't really see a need to ever use him.

She is really, really squishy. Not to mention some bosses might require a backup tank or healer. Or some might need to take a lot of damage really quickly so you might use Kirsch as a joint healer/tank and have 3 dpsers with him.

If you're looking to make it useful without revealing every spell before it's cast (which would itself be a little odd), how about making every charged attack a two-parter? The first attack shows a "charging" animation without displaying any caption and the second attack is the normal attack effect. You know when Disrupt will do something, but you don't know what you're interrupting. The first attack needs to have the MP cost.

Actually, that's a good idea too. Now I'm pretty torn. Come to think of it, I could actually do both, depending on the enemy attack. The only problem is there's not a variety of enemy animations so it'll be tough to show when the cast is taking place. Maybe having some kind of symbol show when the attack happens (via the show attack name bitset)?

Same. Maybe display a message when the player is overencumbered (or maybe just the first time).

That makes a lot of sense.

In Super Metroid, when you acquire an ability, you get a brief message telling you how to use it.

Yeah that would be good. But I'd like to visually explain it. Maybe a tutorial battle? That shouldn't be too difficult to work into the plot.

Maybe an NPC says something like, "I keep getting picked on by the monsters. If only my threat multiplier were lower..."

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with heroes having knowledge of the mathematical aspect of the battles they're fighting.

If you're really concerned, I might recommend just adding a general help menu accessible from the main menu.

Definitely. That's what I'm planning to do with the in-game manual.

[Uncommon]

All else fails, you can always put in a Beginner's Hall with various tutorials regarding each of these elements.

[the drizzle]

True but I'd like to avoid that for realism's sake. I lean toward not liking that in most games, though not strongly.

[Newbie Newtype]

I make the tutorial section a completely separate game option so that it doesn't interfere with the main game.

Good example: Final Fantasy Tactics or Starfox.

[the drizzle]

That's actually not a bad idea. I think I might do that. A lot will still have to be explained in game though.

[msw188]

I'm really glad to hear how this is progressing. But I'm gonna go ahead and be the voice of dissent and totally disagree with almost everything that has been said on the subject: manuals exist for a reason. Why would you try to explain meta-game subjects like the technical use of stats and what 'threat' does within the game world? I've hated it in almost every game I've played that tried to do it. It totally breaks the concept of being in a game-world. If the player wants to try to figure it all out without a manual, that's their choice - it is NOT the author's job to explain the game's mechanics within the game.

On the other hand, I mostly agree with Moogle that specific abilities and strategies do not need to spelled out for the player. Let them think of that on their own; it can fun to a player to figure out the best way to make use of their characters. Then again, this may be harder without random battles; in a game like Darkmoor Dungeon where you need to discover strategies on the spot, you can see how this might be frustrating if battles were not the sole focus of the game.

[Pepsi Ranger]

Sorry, I haven't really been keeping up with this topic, nor do I have any idea how to help you with the mechanics itself. But I do have an idea about the "mechanic instruction" topic.

Like MSW's feeling about the subject, I too hate the convention of NPCs explaining how to do something that the player could just as easily have read in the instruction booklet.

But I also understand that every once in awhile there will be an instance-specific function that might require the player to scour for the answer if there's even room in the instruction booklet to print it, and that if you're planning on making fifty different battle mechanics, it might be more trouble to quit the game and study the instructions to find out how to use it than it would be to just tell the player how the moment the option is given.

So the best way to do this would be to set aside a "narrative box" that doesn't interfere with the game world, but still "instructs" the player how to do something.

If you read a novel, you'll find three different types of story construction: Narrative, action, and dialogue. The game world has action and dialogue built-in (like a movie), but narrative is often cut out. You, however, can elect to implement narrative by creating a unique style of dialogue box that only speaks to the player. Think adventure games that say "You found a compass" or something of that nature. Just build a solid box (maybe shade it red to symbolize the computer rather than the story--errors in custom are given the red box) or something that cannot be mistaken as part of the story line and give your instructions there.

If your guru starts telling you to press up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, select, start to activate the healing process, then you've missed the point.

EDIT: Of course, there's a reason why I read the whole thread before I respond, and why I think it probably shows that I didn't do it this one time.

To clarify, the narrative box should pop up whenever it's needed. If all these abilities are available at the get-go, then I would just stomach the tedium and write out your in-game instructions and make them accessible through a permanent item labeled "Instruct." But I'd still use a narrative box to maintain consistency.

And the instructions don't have to be boring. Narration in a novel shouldn't be boring. Just think of fun ways to convey the information, like:

"Disrupt is a powerful little beast. While acting like stun, it'll toy with its victim, slowly eating at his endurance until he screams. And when it finally disbands, the enemy will be in such rage that he'll react with everything he's got, inflicting twice the usual damage, but killing himself in the process."

And I realize that's probably not what "Disrupt" does, but that should give you an idea how to make the narrative more interesting for the player.

[end edit]

Hope this helps.