Tim-Tim 2 bug reports

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polkakitty
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Tim-Tim 2 bug reports

Post by polkakitty »

I'm making a separate thread for this because it's going to require a lot of pictures, and because I don't want my posting in the main Tim-Tim 2 thread to seem too negative. I did genuinely enjoy the game, and my intent here is to help to improve it by fixing bugs like these, not just to trash on it for having bugs.

These are all issues that I saw playing release 0.9991, so Spoonweaver has probably already fixed some of them in the latest update. I played the game using the stable Hróðvitnir release of ohrrpgce-game, on Linux, using only the keyboard for controls. (I didn't see any control-related issues.)

- In the intro sequence, if you open the menu right after the hand takes Tiff away, it shows Froad in your inventory even though you haven't picked him up yet. This seems strange, since the inventory does correctly reflect whether or not you've already picked up the bag.

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There are two strange bugs that seem to happen when you use the knife on a ladder:

- When Tim-Tim is climbing up, there's a white dot at the top of his sprite, which I think is supposed to be his nose. Sometimes, when you use the knife while climbing up a ladder, the dot disappears, but then it appears again when you continue climbing up. I think this might be caused by the game switching the walkabout sprite for Tim-Tim to facing south, when it was facing north before you used the knife.

- If you're on a ladder, and you jump straight up, and then attack with the knife (while Tim-Tim is still occupying the same space as the ladder, but is jumping instead of climbing it,) then the knife appears in the wrong place, to one side of Tim-Tim instead of being lined up with his hand, and it doesn't move vertically as Tim-Tim does. The same thing happens if you climb to the very top of a ladder and then use the knife.

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- This may not be a bug, exactly, but it's not how I would have expected this to work. If Tim-Tim jumps up into a ceiling, he stays level with the ceiling for some time instead of instantly falling back down. I think this is good, because it means you can easily jump into a 1-tile-high space under a ceiling. However, what I think doesn't make sense is that, if Tim-Tim's upward movement gets interrupted by a ceiling, and then you move horizontally away from the ceiling, Tim-Tim will be able to continue floating upward.

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- After you've opened the chest where you get the Scroll of Lightning, you can open it again, and the game gives you the same message about getting the scroll again. Fortunately, this doesn't seem to interfere with the rest of your inventory; you'll still just have one copy of the scroll, and you'll still have spaces open for all the other items.

- In the first outdoor area, there are two tiles that seem to be incorrectly marked as walls. One is directly above the Living Notebook:

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And the other is next to the second stump to the right of the ladder that leads to the Scroll of Lightning:

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- If you open the menu while a dialogue box is open, the text elements in the GUI at the top of the screen (the gold, capacity, and the quantities of the items assigned to the X and A keys) will be drawn over the dialogue box, which is strange, because text boxes in the OHR are supposed to have a special position in the slice tree reserved for them. I think the best solution might be to not let the player open the menu while a text box is being shown, since that will prevent the menu and the text boxes interfering with each other during any cutscenes.

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- In the slime dungeon, in the room before the skull, if the two monsters that generate green slimes take a certain amount of damage (one swing with the knife will do it,) they will become invisible (without the cloud effect that normally appears when you kill an enemy,) but they will continue spawning slimes. Hitting them again will kill them, and then they won't spawn slimes anymore. Curiously, this only seems to happen in that one room; the same monster appears in other rooms, but there, it won't disappear until it actually dies.

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- The boss of the slime dungeon doesn't get invincibility frames if you use the flame scroll on it, so the flame scroll can kill it in one casting. It *does* seem to get invincibility frames if you use other offensive scrolls; the lightning scroll can only deal 1 HP of damage to the boss per casting.

(Actually, I'm not sure if that's a bug or if it's intended behaviour. I was able to kill the boss by equipping the knife and invisibility scroll, staying in invisible mode for the entire battle, and alternately attacking the boss and killing the little slimes for health and magic refills. I ignored the enemy generators at the top of the room since they don't generate slimes quickly enough for it to be worth the time it takes to jump up and destroy them. I think that was the intended solution, since it uses the same scroll you get in the slime dungeon, but the boss is such a huge difficulty spike (I found it to be far harder than any other boss,) and it's so easy for the battle to go out of control with the boss just gaining more and more HP than it had at the beginning, that part of me suspects I was supposed to cheese it with the flame scroll.)

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- A similar issue happens if you use the tornado scroll on both of the bosses in the final dungeon (although the final boss is saved from being killed in a single casting by the fact that his hitbox is elevated off the ground and the tornado moves below it:)

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- The invisibility scroll suffers from Top Spin Syndrome: it deducts its cost from your MP every frame, as long as you hold down the button to activate it. Unless you jab the button very sharply, it can cost you much more MP than it's intended to. I realize it's potentially useful to be able to use it when you're already invisible to reset the timer, but I think there should be a cooldown period like the protection scroll has.

- After clearing the spider dungeon and the slime dungeon, I explored the cave on the far right side of the map and found the necklace, but I couldn't give the necklace to the lady who lost it. If I talked to her, she would just give me the same message as the first time I talked to her, saying that the goblins have stolen her necklace. I think she might be checking a tag for the wrong event or something.

- In the Tourian entrance (sorry, I'm not sure what else to call it,) when you interact with the four slabs where you're supposed to place the four stone tablets, the game makes "no" symbols appear to indicate tablets you're missing. However, if you're missing 2 or more tablets, it seems that the game mistakenly puts the "no" symbol for every missing tablet but the last in the first slot, even if a tablet is already being shown in that slot.

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- Something weird happens when you hold down the up arrow at the top of some ladders in the ice dungeon, including this one in the first room. When Tim-Tim reaches the very top of the ladder, he instantly jumps one tile down and starts climbing again from that point. This seems to happen when the climbable area of the ladder extends above the point that the game considers to be a floor that Tim-Tim can land on if he falls onto the ladder from above.

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- There seems to be an extra key in the ice dungeon: there are 3 keys, but only 2 locked doors.

In the first half of the final dungeon, there are 4 keys, but only 2 locked doors. In the second half, there are 2 chests that show keys when you open them, and 5 locked doors, which would seem to suggest a missing key in the final dungeon taken as a whole, but there are also chests that show a 50-coin award but give you a key instead, so I'm not sure how many keys there are actually supposed to be. I'll get to that later.

- There's a secret room in the spider dungeon that you can get to by using the protection scroll to walk through some spikes, but it seems to be unfinished. Both of the chests give you 50 gold, but you can't interact with either the character or the bookshelf, even though an up arrow prompt appears when you stand next to them, and when you climb back up the ladder, the game puts you right on the spikes, causing you to take a large amount of damage.

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- The big purple potions that you can buy in the gnome village don't increase the "total number of consumable items" variable when you buy them, and they don't decrease the total when you drink them. In this screenshot, the GUI says I have 25 / 25 items, but counting the 3 purple potions, I actually have a total of 28. However, you still can't buy the purple potions if your inventory is filled to capacity with 25 items, so it's clear they're not supposed to be like keys, which don't count towards your inventory capacity.

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- If you somehow get to a horizontal edge of a map which isn't marked as an exit that leads to another map (one way you can do this is by going to the far right side of the outdoor area where the entrance to the spider dungeon is and using the flight scroll to fly above the rock wall on the right side of the map,) and you try to move off the edge, Tim-Tim will run in place at the edge of the map without moving, and then if you try to move back away from the edge, Tim-Tim will run in place for an equal amount of time before he starts moving away.

It looks like what's going on here is that there is a script variable that represents Tim-Tim's X coordinate, and if you move right and don't get stopped by a wall or the passage that leads to the next map, that variable can increase indefinitely, beyond the value that should represent the right edge of the map, but the hero sprite for Tim-Tim can't be moved off the edge of the map, so the player movement script thinks Tim-Tim is somewhere off the map to the right, but the slice tree still shows him visually as being exactly at the right edge of the map.

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- I, uh.... collected so many max MP upgrades the GUI broke. Unfortunately, I don't remember exactly how many I got over the course of the game. If I pick up this upgrade, the border of the MP meter is always invisible, and the blue bar is invisible when it's full, but becomes visible again when it's less than completely full.

I think that if there was one fewer max MP upgrade and one more max HP upgrade, then by the end of the game, both my HP and MP meters would reach the biggest size they can be before this problem happens. Is it possible that you put a max MP upgrade somewhere where you meant to put a max HP upgrade?

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- I know the eye/tentacle monsters that shoot homing missiles in the final dungeon are supposed to drop more items than other enemies, but for some reason, they seem to drop several times more items if they're killed by the flame scroll, as opposed to any other attack. This gif also shows the cost for the invisibility scroll being deducted several times for one use.

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- Something weird is going on with the connection between these two rooms in the final dungeon. Climbing from the lower room to the upper room works perfectly fine, but if you try to climb down from the upper room to the lower room, the passage never triggers, and what's even stranger, the game lags terribly whenever Tim-Tim moves onto the bottom row of tiles. It looks like there's a script that is responding in some way to Tim-Tim being at the door to the other map, but it's not doing the right thing.

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- In the second leg of the final dungeon, there are some chests that show the icon for a 50-coin award when you open them, but they actually give you an extra key instead!

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Specifically, these five chests:

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(only the chest on the left in this room; the other two really do give you 50 coins)

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- For three doors in the second leg of the final dungeon, if you unlock them, and then leave and come back to the same room, the doors will be open, but if you stand next to them, the interaction prompts to unlock the doors will be displayed again, and if you press the up arrow, you will actually spend another key!

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- This is one of the last few rooms you need to go through before you reach the final boss, but if you go back down the ladder, the game seems to take you to the wrong map, without running a script that's supposed to be run when entering that map. You end up with the normal game GUI overlaid over a black screen, with the music from the ending sequence playing. You can still use scrolls and items, but they don't do anything useful, and there doesn't seem to be any way to get back. Consequently, the ladder acts as a point of no return, which makes it inadvisable to save at the save point right before the final boss, because you can't go back and get more supplies or look for anything you missed. Sort of like the trap save point in Super Metroid's Tourian, come to think of it....

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- In the room right before the final boss, there's one of the mushrooms that's supposed to drop an unlimited number of life refills and one of the crystals that's supposed to drop an unlimited number of magic refills, but for some reason, it seems that only one of them will ever work. Sometimes it's the mushroom, and sometimes it's the crystal (considering that you can convert life into magic with the Life Fuel scroll, but there's no way to convert magic into life, it's rather more helpful for it to be the mushroom,) but I've never seen both of them work.
"It was right through those trees; I'm not insane
That's where the fin tried to drag me in
Don't look at me, look at where I'm pointing
Close your eyes, see what I see, Canajoharie..."
-- They Might Be Giants
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Spoonweaver
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Re: Tim-Tim 2 bug reports

Post by Spoonweaver »

First of all, thank you so so much!
As you guessed I have resolved a number of these bugs already, but will be going back and confirming that. I need to put out an updated version for people to continue to test out I guess.

So to line by line you here and address these:
Froad being in the inventory too soon... whoops! lol

Knife Ladder stuff... yea attacking on ladders has been a huge bug infested issue for a while. Thought I had sort of gotten it all under control but seeing those up attack animations shows me there must be several things left over that I didn't comment out / delete from the original ladder attack scripts.

The floaty jumps. First yes, I want tim-tim to float with head against upper stone. I think it's a more forgiving sort of action and promotes people having fun rather than getting frustrated with jumps. Floating up after the edge of a brick is a side affect of this I was aware of but figured it should happen so little that people are very very unlikely to notice, of course you proved me wrong there. And it seems to found tons in the game I wasn't expecting people to find, maybe ever.

the lightning scroll chest has already been fixed
the phantom blocks have already been fixed as well
thank you though

The menu during textbox issue... I don't know how this never came up, lol. I'm going to disable the ability to open the menu while a textbox is active.
And as you seemed to have guessed, yes I'm doing some odd things with the hud that if I redid things I would not do again.


The slime hearts in that room, I guess I forgot to add the graphics to the other few frames of their npc cluster. It's hard to explain but how I store enemy health is but using different npc ID's. So the npc id's I used for the additional health in this room, werent completed it seems.
This is something I wish I had global npcs for BEFORE I started working on it.... but glad to have them now.

The invincibility frames on bosses was a bug, it was caused by a typo that gave the invinc frames to a slime that doesnt exist on the screen, rather than the boss because I typo'd the id # on the boss hit detection sub script. and because they all use the same script for that it carried over to all of them. It has been addressed already though! Thank you anyways! (The flame wave scroll does still do a lot of damage to the slime boss, in fact I increased it after the feed back I've received so far)

the necklace quest was already fixed, thank you
the seal breaking cutscene was also fixed already, thank you
I have corrected the ladders in every map that didn't have a standing ladder section at the very top. This was basically an issue I was having where I wanted the player to be able to jump down through ladders, but yet still be able to stand on them. I think to get them 100% I may have to completely redo them, and basically don't want to do that. So the work around is that pressing down and jumping doesn't really work as many people have come to expect fro other platformers. Sorry about that!
But yea, the ladders should all be addressed and not feature the weird glitchy thing that happens when you climb to the top of one

I added a few extra keys into the game on purpose, as a way to ease gameplay towards success rather than frustration while trying to find a key that was left behind.
That said, the chests giving keys showing coins are a bug that I need to address, that you for being so thorough in reporting these to me. I couldnt have hoped for more in this report.

The secret room in the spider cave. Man... how the heck did you find this thing... I take it you found the cave you have to use the fly scroll to get to that has all the spikes in it, too? Did you find the hamster?
Anyways, yea I didn't mean to leave that npc there. It was going to be a cameo but I chose different locations for all the cameos in the game and forgot to remove the npc marker. The bookcase not showing books is... an over site due to the bookcase originally being part of the cameo, showing books based on the cameo character. With the cameo gone I might need to rethink whats in that room considering the difficulty getting to it. I may add another cameo if I think of a good one to add.

The purple potion cap issue was addressed, thank you though.

the horizontal edge issue is something I thought I had fixed but I can see you found an area I over looked. The fix was to just not let players reach the edge of the map without hitting a wall and if they can it should be a door. So where you are I had PLANNED on adding another area that was secret but I sort of forgot.... guess I'll add it there.

too many mana upgrades not enough health upgrades.... yea one of those is suppose to be a health upgrade, thank you.
I can't believe you found all of them.......

I actually saw the issue with the threeholders and the flamewave scroll (as well as the tornado scroll) but I don't know if it's something I dislike being in the game. They are a tough enemy and being able to get a ton of rewards from them isn't really something I dislike.. though I'm going to review their code to make sure it's only doubling the rewards and there's no potential for anything completely insane happening like a million coins...


The door link there and a bit further on were fixed, sorry about that, I don't know how I missed those.

the coin/key chests were a surprise.... and will be addressed. As far as whether they should give coins or not.
They give coins, even though there's no where to spend them down there, because you may have noticed, there is a finite amount of gold in the game. You CAN farm monsters to get more but the process is tedious and I didn't want people to feel like they had to. The gold in the final dungeon is so that players who may have used all their gold and potions before saving at one of the last save areas aren't for better or worse semi-softlocked. You would still have the ability to trek back to the mushroom town and buy potions.

The door issue should be fixed, but I'm reviewing the code for them now because I wasn't aware of one of those 3 doors you mentioned and I'm hoping it was addressed too....

the blank screen... this was a map link issue and has been addressed

The map before the final boss has been addressed as well as the mushrooms and crystals both being revamped a bit.





THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH FOR DOING THIS!!!!!
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Bob the Hamster
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Re: Tim-Tim 2 bug reports

Post by Bob the Hamster »

For the record, I LOVE the floaty jump. I think it succeeds at making the platforming more fun and forgiving, and it gives the game a unique feel compared to other platformers.
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polkakitty
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Re: Tim-Tim 2 bug reports

Post by polkakitty »

Spoonweaver wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:50 pmThe secret room in the spider cave. Man... how the heck did you find this thing... I take it you found the cave you have to use the fly scroll to get to that has all the spikes in it, too? Did you find the hamster?
Honestly, I did it by going out of my way to try to break the game and do things that shouldn't work. Like, I went through each area of the overworld checking the F1 map to see whether there was an opening at the top of the map, and then trying to use the flight scroll to go above it. (That was how I found the max HP and MP upgrades that are at the top of the vertical cave passage with all the spikes, and I did find the Bob the Hamster cameo that way as well.)

As for the secret room in the spider dungeon, the platform above the entrance to the secret room is low enough that when you stand on it, you can see the floor under the spikes, and you can see there's a gap you could get into if the spikes didn't hurt you, so when I first explored the spider dungeon, I made a note to go back there if I found an item that could prevent damage from the spikes. Even then, I thought I might just end up stuck on the bottom edge of the map instead of there actually being something there, but I tried it anyway just for the sake of completionism. If it didn't work, then that's what I had a save file for.

Anyway, I did enjoy the game a lot, and I'm glad this was helpful to you!
"It was right through those trees; I'm not insane
That's where the fin tried to drag me in
Don't look at me, look at where I'm pointing
Close your eyes, see what I see, Canajoharie..."
-- They Might Be Giants
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