Contest Ideas

[TMC]

A theme or other requirements restrict and drive people towards a game design.

The beauty of the circle contest (compared to other large collabs) is that one person is solely responsible for the overall game design (or however designing is split up). So you don't have to have an 8-way committee meeting to decide what game to make, which would agree. Large collab projects are very ambitious and need to be well organised. Is this a good way or a terrible way, making people drop out because they've got 5 different design docs to follow? However if you really don't care about one game, in the worst case you can just drop it and have someone else replace you; it'll be a smaller loss.

So, I think that contest would be a really interesting experiment!
But how would the design responsibility be split up? Is the story written first? And a "lead designer" gives the others a design to follow? What would this design doc contain if they don't write the story or dialogue, create the maps, or design the battles and enemies? Maybe some of these need to be combined.
Before you even decide how to split it up, you need to figure out what kind of game is it. Maybe the builtin battle system won't be used. Maybe it's an exploration game with no dialogue. Maybe it has lots of scripted cutscenes, or no scripting*.
Could just have a rule that deviating too far from the RPG formula isn't allowed.

* I strongly feel you shouldn't make "plotscripting" one of the tasks; not everyone is comfortable with that. Fold any scripting needed into other parts. Whoever writes the cutscenes should script them, if needed. Whoever specifies that the game is a Zelda-like has to script it themselves. The same should apply to other tasks too.

I liked that ideia and I would surely do music and sound for any collab game, since it's the least worst of my habilities :v:

Ah, but the point is that you do everything!

[kylekrack]

Scripting should be an optional part of every cycle of development. Not everyone is comfortable with scripting, and some are better than others. If you don't want to script, you don't have to, but if you're making the story and want to script some cutscenes, you should be allowed to do that. I think the main rule should be that no one's scripts should interfere with any other part of development. Meaning, no one else should have to read and interpret your scripts in order to continue development on the game.

[Pepsi Ranger]

Although I like the idea of teaching people about working on the engine, but I have absolutely no idea how that could be structured as a contest.

I have no idea, either. I'd just like to see more people learn how to help you guys. I'd learn, too, if I wasn't so overloaded with things to do. Maybe if I can ever clear my plate faster than life adds to it, I'd give it a go. Making a contest out of it would just raise the incentive.

The reality show comment is closer to the truth, though. It wouldn't actually be a contest with a last man standing. More like a pass/fail examination on completion of the course, where a pass means you've learned something and now you can help.

[TMC]

Scripting should be an optional part of every cycle of development.

Agreed.

I have no idea, either.

Well, since you want to discuss... I guess it could be organised like a scavenger hunt: a fine-grained list of exercises to complete which moves from tutorial (compiling, finding your way around, noting some important functions) onto lists of clues for achieving certain specific pre-determined tasks*. Obviously, telling someone else in detail how to do something easy is far more work than doing it yourself, so this wouldn't really benefit the engine directly. So I am not volunteering to do this :) In fact if I were to write a scavenger-hunt-format tutorial, it should be a guide to using the engine.

*We could even introduce some bugs to the engine to provide tasks... wait no, we have plenty of bugs already :). Actually, zzo38 recently implemented a bunch of new attack options, but didn't add them to the attack editor. Adding them each is similar enough that we could describe it once and multiple people could each add different options.

[Matokage]

Ah, but the point is that you do everything!

[BMR]

Come to think of it, would actually also be fun to have another one of those pixel-art contests. It's simple, nothing really fancy, and easy enough to get going. Last few we had seemed to be rather popular. Might be something worth looking into.

[kylekrack]

The pixel art contests were pretty successful. I'd like to partake in one. However, I will note that the mascot contests, where contestants were given two random animals/objects and tasked with blending them together, feel better to me than the 30-day contests. Having a list of things to draw every day for 30 days is a pretty huge commitment, and something with one or two entries per contestant seems more appropriate.

[SwordPlay]

Pixel-Art contest sounds cool, but maybe it could be combined with the collab contest somehow?
I'm really liking the sound of a pixel-art marathon. It could have tiers and stages, for example divided by canvas size, colours, and separated based on theme/subject, so people could place first in some categories and not in others, or even not be required to submit an entry for each challenge

[marionline]

Maybe the Engine Training Contest could be held in some workshop from?
(That would not make it a contest, still it would be an event.)

The Circle Collab Contrest is a bit like making a game from puzzle pieces.
The puzzle pieces build on each other, so one person gets the tiles some else drew and make a map. Another then might write the dialogue and move nPC around that map.
That was what I thought the contest would be like. So I did not add a "write a design document" stage to the contest page.
We could add it as the first stage, before actually creating anything, it would impose more limits on game creation during the contest,
but also some instructions what you should draw/write/add to someone else's game. I would prefer not to add it.
What do the others think about it?

I could add the Pixel Art Contest to the list.
These contest only helps to produce art. It is fun, but I never felt that the created graphics were actually
used in games. I'd prefer a contest where the result is a game, not just an image.
Or at least where the images are used to make a game.
Anyhow, that shouldn't stop you from making a pixel art contest.
I would take part in it.


It looks like we start with the: Individual Circle Collab Contest.
How about we begin on the 23.July, a sunday? Or the 1st of August?
(We need another poll for that. )

[TMC]

Oh, okay. Yes, it's different than I was imagining.

In which order do the contestants work on the game? Do they work on it in parallel, or one after another? If the game is made "from puzzle pieces" someone still puts the pieces together. If the tiles are drawn before the story is written, then the writer no longer has much choice about what the setting is, or vice versa if the writer goes first.

So if you decide on people taking turns consecutively, maybe it would be possible to vary the order of turns for each game, to try different ways?

There are a lot of decisions you need to make about how to run this contest.

July 23rd is good for me.

[MorpheusKitami]

I think I get where you're going with the enemy and hero creation stages now. What about portraits and backdrops? Would the former be the responsibility of the dialog writer or the hero creator? I'm asking because I like to sprinkle backdrops into my dialog now and then.
Why the 23rd though, and not the 22nd or the 21st? Seems like you're wasting a weekend to me.

[TMC]

Yes, I think it's generally better to start at the beginning of a weekend. For anyone who's motivated and wants to start straight away.

[marionline]

Allright! We start on the 23rd.
I like the idea with changing order of stages, and I thought to let everyone set up the stages in a way he or she considers the best.
So MorpheusKitami can add backdrops to dialogues.

I tried to set up the rules for the contest.
Did I miss something?
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Individual Circle Collab Contest

Everyone makes a game, but the process is cut into stages.
Each stage the games are exchanged among the participants, who work on another stage of the game.
(The game goes round in a circle from one dev to another). Everyone has to try to do every stage (besides the optional ones).
Each stage should take two weeks. But you can ask to get more time for a stage.
(That way dropouts don't block the circle flow for long.)

Does that sound easy?
Well, wet's change that.
The Stages can be diffrent for each game!
The first person sets up the order for the game's stages.

EXAMPLE:
Stage 1: Drawing
Stage 2: Attack & Item creation
Stage 3: Hero Creation
Stage 4: Enemy Creation
Stage 5: Mapping
Stage 6: Write Text
Stage 7: Music & Sounds
Optional: More Drawing (Drawing things that are missing for the story/plot)
Optional: Plot Scripting

Every Stage should be included at least one time.


This is the circle for *one* game only. If three people take part, there should be three games going round.
Person A dies stage 1 and stage 4.

Dropouts and People who join late:
We just proceed in the circle. Since the games have diffrent stages,
it is unlikely that someone does a stage two times in a row.

[Idontknow]

I'd be down with this, though assigning all the graphics to a single person as "drawing" seems a bit much.

[TMC]

Well, it's not clear, does "Hero Creation" include drawing hero graphics or designing the heroes, and does mapping include placing NPCs?

Do we have to stick to each of these stages? So you can't draw extra graphics or edit maps if you're not responsible? I guess anyone who needs to create NPCs/maps/heroes/etc but doesn't have the graphics yet should create placeholder graphics?

So I guess everyone is responsible for building on top of previous work. For example "Music & Sound" involves finding or creating music and sound, and if the maps/attacks/etc have been created already then you also need to edit those to add music/sound. But if they haven't been created yet, then the person creating them has to add music/sound later?
So that means the person adding NPCs to maps would be either the Writer or the Mapper or maybe the person drawing the chest graphic? And the person adding the treasure chests could be either the Mapper or the Item creator or maybe the Writer?

Is the final person responsible for making sure that the game is complete? What if they have for example "Music & Sound Effects" but the game is still unplayable?

Worse, who's responsible for balancing the battles, spells, item placement, inns, shops, foemaps, etc? That's all one task.

I assume "Music & Sound" involves finding and placing free music and sound, and only composing/creating them if you wish to.

Will you determine the circle order after people have decided the stage order for every game, to try to ensure that people don't have to do the same stage repeatedly?

Is the a theme or other guidance as to the games to make, such as a traditional RPG? What's the expected length?

Every Stage should be included at least one time.

How do the optional stages work? What if someone wants to opt out of a stage like Plotscripting? And how does having the same stage multiple times work? Does the first person specify subtasks like "Drawing (Tiles), Mapping, Drawing (Walkabouts)", etc?

Is the two week deadline strict or a guidance? I hope we can finish early and move on, because some of the stages should only take a day. But then if people finish the easy stages quickly and pass the game on, the people who start with a lot of work will be given even more to do!
How do you determine whether to drop someone? Can someone drop just one stage because they're stuck, but keep working on others?
And I think 14 weeks in total would be far too long. I'll be away for two weeks in August, and other people probably aren't free for that long either.

Is there voting afterwards?