Axe Cop
Moderators: Bob the Hamster, marionline, SDHawk
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TheLordThyGod
- Slime Knight
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The thing about the fruit in the game is that each fruit in the game is used by a different hero. I didn't want to put every type of fruit the shopkeeper could have if they weren't useful. For instance, when you're actually able to order fruit only avocado and lemon are useful. There will be a character that uses bananas later on, just not now, and when he is available the bananas will be there too.
And yeah, whole game will be top-down style with interiors of buildings being similar to the Axe Cop Station's layout.
Also have some updates. One of which we posted on social media, the other will likely be next week's post.
<img src="https://www.redtrianglegames.com/img/ax ... test02.gif">
The sock boomerang is finished and can open chests from far away and even bring the item back. The main use for this will be will be to hit switches from far away.
<img src="https://www.redtrianglegames.com/img/ax ... hscent.png">
This one started out being very easy but quickly became something much much better than originally designed. The dog, Ralph Wrinkles, has the ability to smell items and find hidden treasures. In the 2nd demo, you can return to the Land of Volcanoes and reveal a hidden path with the sock area shown above as well as some more treasures. It works with visuals and sounds. Soda and I both agreed that there's a possibility a player is playing without sound so we did it this way. It's essentially a hot-cold way of finding things. I did this in Mr. Triangle's Adventure at the beach area and it worked well.
And yeah, whole game will be top-down style with interiors of buildings being similar to the Axe Cop Station's layout.
Also have some updates. One of which we posted on social media, the other will likely be next week's post.
<img src="https://www.redtrianglegames.com/img/ax ... test02.gif">
The sock boomerang is finished and can open chests from far away and even bring the item back. The main use for this will be will be to hit switches from far away.
<img src="https://www.redtrianglegames.com/img/ax ... hscent.png">
This one started out being very easy but quickly became something much much better than originally designed. The dog, Ralph Wrinkles, has the ability to smell items and find hidden treasures. In the 2nd demo, you can return to the Land of Volcanoes and reveal a hidden path with the sock area shown above as well as some more treasures. It works with visuals and sounds. Soda and I both agreed that there's a possibility a player is playing without sound so we did it this way. It's essentially a hot-cold way of finding things. I did this in Mr. Triangle's Adventure at the beach area and it worked well.
http://www.redtrianglegames.com
RMZ#4181
RMZ#4181
Come now, I can SEE you've got bananas!
Ah, so both Sockarang and Ralph unlock extra stuff on the first level. That map is fairly large and a tad barren, so I probably wouldn't be inclined to go back to it if I suspected that. (I think it makes sense to NOT give any hints that there's more on that map, as some players would try to reach it and be doomed to fail) But something is better than nothing, and it'll make future maps more interesting.
Ah, so both Sockarang and Ralph unlock extra stuff on the first level. That map is fairly large and a tad barren, so I probably wouldn't be inclined to go back to it if I suspected that. (I think it makes sense to NOT give any hints that there's more on that map, as some players would try to reach it and be doomed to fail) But something is better than nothing, and it'll make future maps more interesting.
I decided to block off Sockarang from this next demo after I started getting near the end of the work needed to be done. But there's 3 Ralph Wrinkles things in Land of Volcanoes to find. I'm curious why you thought it was a large map. When you're running and moving fast you can clear the whole thing in no time. I am mostly asking because I am doing preliminary work for the next area and I was anticipating that being a full-length level and being about 2-3 times the size of the intro stage. Granted Land of Volcanoes is just the same stuff over and over.TMC wrote:Come now, I can SEE you've got bananas!
Ah, so both Sockarang and Ralph unlock extra stuff on the first level. That map is fairly large and a tad barren, so I probably wouldn't be inclined to go back to it if I suspected that. (I think it makes sense to NOT give any hints that there's more on that map, as some players would try to reach it and be doomed to fail) But something is better than nothing, and it'll make future maps more interesting.
Next level is an ice world and will have a minigame at the front. Spoonweaver actually made us a prototype and I am going to allow myself to take a break for a few weeks and then get back into it so it can look amazing. Then there will be a forest area, and then an interior section to fight Bad Santa. In the forest I am planning on making it so Ralph Wrinkles' scent detection will be vital to finding the path to get out. The paths for more treasures will likely be for Sockarang since he's the character you'll get about halfway through the area.
http://www.redtrianglegames.com
RMZ#4181
RMZ#4181
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Bob the Hamster
- Lord of the Slimes
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I think in general it is better to make a map more densely packed with stuff rather than just making the map bigger.
(something I still have to go back and fix in some of my own maps!)
I really like the way you are using all these map-special abilities.
It reminds me of Breath of Fire II's map abilities, (except more useful! Many of those were just used in one or two places and then forgotten about.)
(something I still have to go back and fix in some of my own maps!)
I really like the way you are using all these map-special abilities.
It reminds me of Breath of Fire II's map abilities, (except more useful! Many of those were just used in one or two places and then forgotten about.)
OK, yes, that level isn't actually large, thanks to the run ability. I did mean relative to the content. But it's been a while since I played, and I think I misremembered: it felt large because it had several branches (meaning backtracking), because the terrain was barren, and mostly because I spent a long time on it, which was because I was playtesting and trying to find every corner instead of playing normally.
Also, it's not just how quickly you can run across the map, but how easy it is to navigate vs getting lost. The less you can see of the map at once (how large it is in comparison to the screen.), the more easily you can get lost.
Anyway, sounds nice.
Also, it's not just how quickly you can run across the map, but how easy it is to navigate vs getting lost. The less you can see of the map at once (how large it is in comparison to the screen.), the more easily you can get lost.
Anyway, sounds nice.
Well dudes, we finished demo 2. I don't think I'm quite able to do a public release since the creator asked to share the content with his patreon followers as exclusive content. I will try to ask for a public release for maybe the 4th demo towards this time next year. To everybody who playtested and reported bugs or assisted with my messed up code problems, thank you! You guys are awesome.
One of the things on my list of content to program in is a bit more controversial I think. The game has a massive roster of playable characters, definitely the most I've ever done and I'm trying to think of the best way to handle it. If you ever played the Lego games, there's a lot of inspiration from those here with each character having a unique task out of battle to help solve puzzles and advance in the area. Now, there's Free Play mode in those games where you get to use every character for any given puzzle in a level with you and then Story Mode where you just get the basic guys. My question for you guys is... how do you think this should work? In every RPG I've ever played, you have an active party and then you have your reserves that can only be swapped out at save stations or the hub. I was under the impression I'd do the same thing but Soda Piggy seemed to think otherwise. There are pros and cons to both. Personally, I like the idea of having to work to an area with characters you may not be great with as an opportunity to learn more about how to use them to solve a puzzle. Soda makes this game as a partner with me so I wanted to consider his thoughts and see what the community thought.
I'd like anybody's opinion who'd like to share it.
One of the things on my list of content to program in is a bit more controversial I think. The game has a massive roster of playable characters, definitely the most I've ever done and I'm trying to think of the best way to handle it. If you ever played the Lego games, there's a lot of inspiration from those here with each character having a unique task out of battle to help solve puzzles and advance in the area. Now, there's Free Play mode in those games where you get to use every character for any given puzzle in a level with you and then Story Mode where you just get the basic guys. My question for you guys is... how do you think this should work? In every RPG I've ever played, you have an active party and then you have your reserves that can only be swapped out at save stations or the hub. I was under the impression I'd do the same thing but Soda Piggy seemed to think otherwise. There are pros and cons to both. Personally, I like the idea of having to work to an area with characters you may not be great with as an opportunity to learn more about how to use them to solve a puzzle. Soda makes this game as a partner with me so I wanted to consider his thoughts and see what the community thought.
I'd like anybody's opinion who'd like to share it.
http://www.redtrianglegames.com
RMZ#4181
RMZ#4181
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SwordPlay
- Chemical Slime
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Depends on the different kind of main characters you have, and how easily you'd like players to be able to switch them.
If you have quite a lot, you probably want hero swapping to be simpler to allow players to try out all the combinations of heroes, and see what each one does.
If you have specific match-ups of heroes, and would like to keep the player from forming inefficient parties, you might restrict party-member swapping on a 1-for-1 basis. e.g. Only swapping Fire mages for other Fire mages, to ensure the party always has Fire magic available.
Example.
You might have 4 slots, for different hero types.
You might have an active, instant hero-swapping system, but only allowing certain combinations of heroes.
For example, in the 1st slot, you might require a leader. You could assign a button to cycle through available heroes for that slot.
The second slot might be dedicated to a long-range specialist or hero that has map observation / detection abilities. You might assign another(?) key to cycle through
The third slot might be dedicated for heroes with map traversal/navigation abilities.
The fourth slot might be for heroes that have healing or party management abilities.
Making sure that players always have heroes of a 'type' ensures that they can more or less progress through an area, albeit in different ways and with varying difficulty.
Finally, you might try to tie party-management into gameplay mechanics, such as having to summon, interact, hire, trade etc., to activate a hero, perhaps on a map-by-map basis, or with other constraints, such as time. Depends how freely you want players to be able to access (certain) heroes.
You might also tie this into story/plot devices, such as carrying a magic lamp that contains all the other party members, but costs mana to use.
I could go on :p
EDIT:
Realistically, I think you'd probably want to choose your heroes before entering a map (dungeon). You might have certain points, events or locations where heroes can be swapped freely or semi-freely, for example, when the player reaches a bell, they can ring it to summon a hero, but perhaps it costs money.
Or they can lay bacon to attract a dog party member, but it only works in certain conditions or locations. Or you might have some kind of portal that gets used up and allows you to swap members a limited amount of times before closing. But when you enter a dungeon, it is reset, or perhaps randomised.
If you have quite a lot, you probably want hero swapping to be simpler to allow players to try out all the combinations of heroes, and see what each one does.
If you have specific match-ups of heroes, and would like to keep the player from forming inefficient parties, you might restrict party-member swapping on a 1-for-1 basis. e.g. Only swapping Fire mages for other Fire mages, to ensure the party always has Fire magic available.
Example.
You might have 4 slots, for different hero types.
You might have an active, instant hero-swapping system, but only allowing certain combinations of heroes.
For example, in the 1st slot, you might require a leader. You could assign a button to cycle through available heroes for that slot.
The second slot might be dedicated to a long-range specialist or hero that has map observation / detection abilities. You might assign another(?) key to cycle through
The third slot might be dedicated for heroes with map traversal/navigation abilities.
The fourth slot might be for heroes that have healing or party management abilities.
Making sure that players always have heroes of a 'type' ensures that they can more or less progress through an area, albeit in different ways and with varying difficulty.
Finally, you might try to tie party-management into gameplay mechanics, such as having to summon, interact, hire, trade etc., to activate a hero, perhaps on a map-by-map basis, or with other constraints, such as time. Depends how freely you want players to be able to access (certain) heroes.
You might also tie this into story/plot devices, such as carrying a magic lamp that contains all the other party members, but costs mana to use.
I could go on :p
EDIT:
Realistically, I think you'd probably want to choose your heroes before entering a map (dungeon). You might have certain points, events or locations where heroes can be swapped freely or semi-freely, for example, when the player reaches a bell, they can ring it to summon a hero, but perhaps it costs money.
Or they can lay bacon to attract a dog party member, but it only works in certain conditions or locations. Or you might have some kind of portal that gets used up and allows you to swap members a limited amount of times before closing. But when you enter a dungeon, it is reset, or perhaps randomised.
Last edited by SwordPlay on Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Spoonweaver
- Liquid Metal King Slime
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Well I think the idea behind not letting players freely exchange party members is both story based, because where were these guys the whole times of you can swap them in, and also a difficulty level one, sense having a ton of guys to swap in sort of lessens the danger of running out of healing or supplies in a dungeon.
My suggestion would be to add an item that you swapped a party member inside a dungeon, like a radio or something, and limit the amount of that item you can get, with either shop cost or make it only available as a rare item in dungeons. Would solve both problems while allowing players to grab that rare guy to open some sort of magic door only they can open.
My suggestion would be to add an item that you swapped a party member inside a dungeon, like a radio or something, and limit the amount of that item you can get, with either shop cost or make it only available as a rare item in dungeons. Would solve both problems while allowing players to grab that rare guy to open some sort of magic door only they can open.
But what about battles? You're still only going to have a max of 4 heroes in battles, so you do have the concept of an active party.
So I guess either you come up with a reason only only four heroes fight, although all the heroes are accompanying you, or you have some way (like a radio) for the player to call for reinforcements anywhere. Either way you have to extend your current Order menu.
Aside from that, the only point I can see in not letting the player take all their heroes with them is to prevent them swapping their battle party when they're injured*. As for the puzzles, if they have to pick four and miss someone needed to solve a puzzle then either they skip that puzzle or they have to go to all the trouble to coming back later. Doesn't sound too fun.
Another option: you could let the player call a reinforcement in the field but limit the number of times they can do that to 1-2 per mission, to prevent battle party swapping abuse while being forgiving about bring the wrong team. Are any maps going to have puzzles requiring more than 4 heroes?
*Aside, do you get healed every time you go back to HQ?
So I guess either you come up with a reason only only four heroes fight, although all the heroes are accompanying you, or you have some way (like a radio) for the player to call for reinforcements anywhere. Either way you have to extend your current Order menu.
Aside from that, the only point I can see in not letting the player take all their heroes with them is to prevent them swapping their battle party when they're injured*. As for the puzzles, if they have to pick four and miss someone needed to solve a puzzle then either they skip that puzzle or they have to go to all the trouble to coming back later. Doesn't sound too fun.
Another option: you could let the player call a reinforcement in the field but limit the number of times they can do that to 1-2 per mission, to prevent battle party swapping abuse while being forgiving about bring the wrong team. Are any maps going to have puzzles requiring more than 4 heroes?
*Aside, do you get healed every time you go back to HQ?
Last edited by TMC on Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:13 am, edited 5 times in total.
You guys are kind of reaffirming my thoughts on this subject.
@Virtuous Sword... believe it or not, with 15 characters planned, each one couldn't be more different in battle and there is no "type" of character besides a support or offensive type. The only requirement I will have is Axe Cop must always be part of the active party. Throughout the entire game you will HAVE to use everybody, so every hero will have an introduction of sorts, and then a role in a future dungeon.
@Spoonweaver & TMC... I think this is kind of where my head was too. Just letting you swap them out at like the Save Stations. I originally wanted to just have the heroes be wandering the hud map and then you talk to them to swap them out but I think that could be tedious if you're on a mission and you have to constantly backtrack to fetch somebody you need to do the task. Your radio concept is really smart. And no, there is no free party-wide healing as of now. There will be an Inn available after mission 2 though.
I kind of thought that all of the heroes NOT in the active party would be wandering the HUD map, keeping an eye on things, having goofy opportunities for dialog, etc. It would fill out the map as it could easily use a splash of personality. If you played demo 2 (no hard feelings to those not on the list for this, if you're genuinely upset I can try to get you in for demo 3) you'd notice a lot of characters not in the demo wandering the map. That might help you visualize my concept.
Striking a balance for this and making it grounded in the game is the tricky part. Why are we going to limit this when you can summon the dinosaur a million times to take you to and from the missions? I agree with you TMC, why would a player revisit a map if they knew a character was at the hud map and they couldn't use him and it took time to get to this location?
I think I can use some Axe Cop logic here and have the scientist create a device that lets you swap X amount of heroes per map by some Star Trek beaming type thing. So if you're in mission it could act like the radio Spoonweaver said. I think this is a strong compromise to Soda wanting them ALL available all the time and making it not too childish like the Lego franchise. Thanks dudes.
@Virtuous Sword... believe it or not, with 15 characters planned, each one couldn't be more different in battle and there is no "type" of character besides a support or offensive type. The only requirement I will have is Axe Cop must always be part of the active party. Throughout the entire game you will HAVE to use everybody, so every hero will have an introduction of sorts, and then a role in a future dungeon.
@Spoonweaver & TMC... I think this is kind of where my head was too. Just letting you swap them out at like the Save Stations. I originally wanted to just have the heroes be wandering the hud map and then you talk to them to swap them out but I think that could be tedious if you're on a mission and you have to constantly backtrack to fetch somebody you need to do the task. Your radio concept is really smart. And no, there is no free party-wide healing as of now. There will be an Inn available after mission 2 though.
I kind of thought that all of the heroes NOT in the active party would be wandering the HUD map, keeping an eye on things, having goofy opportunities for dialog, etc. It would fill out the map as it could easily use a splash of personality. If you played demo 2 (no hard feelings to those not on the list for this, if you're genuinely upset I can try to get you in for demo 3) you'd notice a lot of characters not in the demo wandering the map. That might help you visualize my concept.
Striking a balance for this and making it grounded in the game is the tricky part. Why are we going to limit this when you can summon the dinosaur a million times to take you to and from the missions? I agree with you TMC, why would a player revisit a map if they knew a character was at the hud map and they couldn't use him and it took time to get to this location?
I think I can use some Axe Cop logic here and have the scientist create a device that lets you swap X amount of heroes per map by some Star Trek beaming type thing. So if you're in mission it could act like the radio Spoonweaver said. I think this is a strong compromise to Soda wanting them ALL available all the time and making it not too childish like the Lego franchise. Thanks dudes.
http://www.redtrianglegames.com
RMZ#4181
RMZ#4181
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Soda_piggy
- Slime Knight
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Thanks for all the feedback guys. Y'all bring up some good points, and I'd like to share some thoughts too.
As for swapping, I'd think of it more like Paper Mario (the RPG ones, not the later platform we ones) you don't need any special item or backtracking to switch out your other team members. You just did it. No one cared about the specifics of it because it just worked and kept the momentum moving forward instead of backtracking to save points to switch.
As for the player switching to avoid a team member dying and stuff, I'd just do that at save station anyway. I did that all the time in old school RPGs. I think we risk creating what I think are unnecessary and annoying constraints for the sake of fitting gaming conventions of the past if we either require people to backtrack to save stations or to limit their swapping of players with items or number limits.
I'd say just let them swap from the main menu at any time like you could with literally any Final Fantasy when you're on the world map. Keeps the momentum of the game going, and it's really not that big of a deal in the long run. Keeping the player engaged in the game and having fun is the most important thing.
As for swapping, I'd think of it more like Paper Mario (the RPG ones, not the later platform we ones) you don't need any special item or backtracking to switch out your other team members. You just did it. No one cared about the specifics of it because it just worked and kept the momentum moving forward instead of backtracking to save points to switch.
As for the player switching to avoid a team member dying and stuff, I'd just do that at save station anyway. I did that all the time in old school RPGs. I think we risk creating what I think are unnecessary and annoying constraints for the sake of fitting gaming conventions of the past if we either require people to backtrack to save stations or to limit their swapping of players with items or number limits.
I'd say just let them swap from the main menu at any time like you could with literally any Final Fantasy when you're on the world map. Keeps the momentum of the game going, and it's really not that big of a deal in the long run. Keeping the player engaged in the game and having fun is the most important thing.
<a href="https://www.sodapiggymusic.com">Soda Piggy Website</a>