Action 52 - Community Collab (Is this possible?)

[Willy Elektrix]

Like Gizmog and Feenicks I don't see much reason to use the NES palette specifically.

If that's the general consensus, then let's not use the a specific palette.

Referring to Action 52 seems to be causing everyone to assume that the games ought to be bad, despite your actual description of the goals; I suggest not associating with it (or Caltron 6-in-1).

I mentioned Action 52 so people have some idea what I'm talking about. Although, you are right, I may not be communicating my idea clearly (or maybe people are not reading the content of my posts).

I referenced those specific multi-carts so people have some idea about the suggested size and complexity of these games. I'm not really sure how to make this much more clear to people that the goal is not to make lousy games, but instead make something fun and somewhat polished, although simple.

Once we've established a little more about this project, I'll create a new thread with a more clear set of expectations and guidelines. This will be our formal development thread.

Although, would you like to encourage a collection of clones of classics like Pong, Tetris, Mario?

Games inspired Pong, Tetris, Mario are fine. Outright copies of those games with no new ideas or mechanics are not allowed. It's a creative dead end!

For instance, you can make a falling block puzzle game. You could even make falling block puzzle game using the Tetris shapes, but there must be something different about it. For instance, maybe it has a more complex scoring system, or power-ups, or RPG stats, or something.

[Willy Elektrix]

I'll probably do something like a Cheetahmen clone or a barely playable Zelda clone.

Please don't misunderstand. We are try to making highly playable games here. Not bad ones! It's okay to make a game in the style of Cheetahmen or Zelda, but it needs to actually be worth playing!

Sign me up for a Sokoban-like, then. Starting in january, yes? I'm very busy until then.

You can start whenever. I think it will be realistic timeline would be to have all the submissions in by March 1st and then the first complete version of the compilation out on April 1st. I'll be starting work on this before January because I may make more than 1 game.

There is also the menu to consider, which needs to look really sweet. I can try this if there are no volunteers, but I'm not really very slick at scripting, so there might be someone better.

Although, there is no reason to think too much about the menu until we have an estimate number of games. I'm hoping for at least 10. Less is okay too, but what is really important is that they are of high quality.

[Gizmog]

Like Gizmog and Feenicks I don't see much reason to use the NES palette specifically.

If that's the general consensus, then let's not use the a specific palette.

I wasn't saying we couldn't agree on a palette to use (though that would preclude color-shifting shenanigans, which I'm kind of high on right now) just that the NES Palette has shortcomings that could possibly be addressed. (That said, I'm not for a palette restriction either. I think things will be just as good without one.)

There is also the menu to consider, which needs to look really sweet. I can try this if there are no volunteers, but I'm not really very slick at scripting, so there might be someone better.

Although, there is no reason to think too much about the menu until we have an estimate number of games. I'm hoping for at least 10. Less is okay too, but what is really important is that they are of high quality.

I would love to help with a menu. I have some ideas that might not even be possible (using timers and the new rungame to randomly choose a game as a "demo" screen if you don't push any buttons and then "rungame" the menu to pop back) but failing that, I can still help us sparkle.

I'll probably do something like a Cheetahmen clone or a barely playable Zelda clone.

Please don't misunderstand. We are try to making highly playable games here. Not bad ones! It's okay to make a game in the style of Cheetahmen or Zelda, but it needs to actually be worth playing!

[quote="Willy Electrix]]I'll ultimately be responsible for the quality control. I'm not going to be a Nazi about this, but if your game is of excessively poor quality or doesn't fit the theme, I'll insist that you make changes.[/quote]

I'm not trying to start a debate or rules lawyer, so I hope you won't interpret it that way. I'd hate to see anyone feel like they aren't good enough to enter. I think this has the potential to be a great community project and that it can foster cooperation and understanding the way the Random Collab contest used to try to.

In that spirit, I hope I'm not alone in saying that I will do my best to help anybody whose project falls short of the requirements. It's easier to fix something that's broke than it is to create something from nothing. If somebody can make a poorly functioning clone, I'd hope that as a team we'd be able to give them the technical advice to get that game across the finish line.

TL;DR: I hope that nobody's discouraged from making their game, and I hope that all of us are able to get advice on how to make our games the best they can possibly be from all possible standpoints (graphical, gameplay, scripting, etc.)

[Willy Elektrix]

I would love to help with a menu. I have some ideas that might not even be possible (using timers and the new rungame to randomly choose a game as a "demo" screen if you don't push any buttons and then "rungame" the menu to pop back) but failing that, I can still help us sparkle.

I was secretly hoping you would offer.

I'm not trying to start a debate or rules lawyer, so I hope you won't interpret it that way. I'd hate to see anyone feel like they aren't good enough to enter. I think this has the potential to be a great community project and that it can foster cooperation and understanding the way the Random Collab contest used to try to.

In that spirit, I hope I'm not alone in saying that I will do my best to help anybody whose project falls short of the requirements. It's easier to fix something that's broke than it is to create something from nothing. If somebody can make a poorly functioning clone, I'd hope that as a team we'd be able to give them the technical advice to get that game across the finish line.

TL;DR: I hope that nobody's discouraged from making their game, and I hope that all of us are able to get advice on how to make our games the best they can possibly be from all possible standpoints (graphical, gameplay, scripting, etc.)

I agree with you completely. I would never make someone throw away their game and start over, but I might require changes. For example: eliminating bugs, removing inappropriate content, or adding unique features if the game is too derivative of another game.

I can even help you to make these changes. We can work together!

Everyone in this community (even the newest member) is more than capable of making a suitable game for this compilation if they put in the time and effort..

By overseeing quality control, I am not trying to keep newer OHR users from submitting. I’m trying to avoid releasing a compilation of buggy half-finished games.

[Gizmog]

I was secretly hoping you would offer.

Hehe, thanks!

By overseeing quality control, I am not trying to keep newer OHR users from submitting. I’m trying to avoid releasing a compilation of buggy half-finished games.

Perfect! I knew that was the case, but I just wanted to be 100% sure.

[Soda_piggy]

Action 52 OHR Stylez huh? AMAZING! Who's doing Hamstermen?

@Phoenix has it right about NES limitations. Perfect!

[Foxley]

Currently entertaining the thought of making a late '80s-early '90s war against drug campaign game called Just Say No Densetsu.

[TMC]

I knew Giz was itching to do the menu.

I would love to help with a menu. I have some ideas that might not even be possible (using timers and the new rungame to randomly choose a game as a "demo" screen if you don't push any buttons and then "rungame" the menu to pop back) but failing that, I can still help us sparkle.

Wow, that's a nice idea. Modifying each game to play a demo would appear to be a boatload of work. However, it could be possible to do that using recorded input (an .ohrkeys file) instead. There would have to be some new script commands to load the file, to interrupt it, and a way to check the real keyboard state while playing back so that you can check for an interruption. It does sound doable although I'm not immediately clear on how it would all work. But I'd really like to make a whole range of improvements to the input recording and playback system anyway (e.g. support for mouse input). It would be useful both for games with prerecorded demos, and for replays (like one of Mogri's games), although it would be a not-very-easy-to-use advanced feature.

@Phoenix has it right about NES limitations. Perfect!

Perfect what?

[Gizmog]

I knew Giz was itching to do the menu.

Wow, that's a nice idea. Modifying each game to play a demo would appear to be a boatload of work. However, it could be possible to do that using recorded input (an .ohrkeys file) instead. There would have to be some new script commands to load the file, to interrupt it, and a way to check the real keyboard state while playing back so that you can check for an interruption. It does sound doable although I'm not immediately clear on how it would all work. But I'd really like to make a whole range of improvements to the input recording and playback system anyway (e.g. support for mouse input). It would be useful both for games with prerecorded demos, and for replays (like one of Mogri's games), although it would be a not-very-easy-to-use advanced feature.

You're way smarter than me, feel free to knock our socks off (w/r/t menu) if you want TMC! I was figuring each game would have its own attract mode of sorts, and that it might be possible to somehow send a value when we run the game to let it know "JK, not really playing!" and just roll through that attract mode. *BUT* that was before I looked at how the run game command actually works!

However, to this end, we are going to need to make sure every game as a "Return to Main Menu" in addition to the standard "Quit to Desktop" option. Fortunately, that should be trivial (just rungame (MainMenu.RPG)) and who cares how the game triggers it.

That keypress stuff is super interesting but damned if I know how any of that works! I'm guessing it's how Moogle1 did those replays in Memento Mori (I'd always wondered!) I'm sure we'll be able to figure out a good compromise that doesn't force you to do a bunch of work.

We're going to have a lot of options when it comes to displaying this stuff, and obviously a lot of its going to depend on turnout, but it's really going to be a lot of fun putting together.

[Newbie Newtype]

I guess I'll be making a shooter mini-game, but I can't promise I can get it finished.

[TMC]

Oh, I'll let you make the menu, aside from doing replay-based demo modes, if I do indeed get around to adding commands for that. Potentially they're not too much work to add, but I was wrong the last time!

I'm not 100% sure how Mogri did the Memento Mori replays, but I believe that he just recorded all keypresses in an array of global variables/slices, so that he could read back out when replaying.

I was figuring each game would have its own attract mode of sorts, and that it might be possible to somehow send a value when we run the game to let it know "JK, not really playing!" and just roll through that attract mode. *BUT* that was before I looked at how the run game command actually works!

Actually, you will be able to do that, I just haven't implemented it yet. Here's the complete documentation for "run game". Gosh, it really required a long explanation. Maybe I over-complicated it.

However, to this end, we are going to need to make sure every game as a "Return to Main Menu" in addition to the standard "Quit to Desktop" option.

I think always quitting back to the menu would be fine.

That keypress stuff is super interesting but damned if I know how any of that works! I'm guessing it's how Moogle1 did those replays in Memento Mori (I'd always wondered!)

[kylekrack]

A small tactical rpg might be a fun addition to a collab like this. I've been craving fire emblem lately but I don't have any consoles, so I was considering making one instead. I'm gonna try to see how much work that would be and get back on it.

Has anyone made a tactical rpg using the ohr before? I remember an old game "Fyre Emblem" but I also remember it throwing a fatal error every time I tried to play it. I have never tried to make a game like this, so having some reference might help.

[KF Harlock]

Moogle had an "OHR Tactics" demo working a long time ago. It was definitely functional, but it was made in the early days of plotscripting, so one could doubtless improve upon it considerably nowadays. Not sure if anyone else has made one.

[Willy Elektrix]

Has anyone made a tactical rpg using the ohr before? I remember an old game "Fyre Emblem" but I also remember it throwing a fatal error every time I tried to play it. I have never tried to make a game like this, so having some reference might help.

I think Mogri's game was called Phantom Tactics. If I recall correctly, it was a couple of demo battles but it worked pretty well.

I think Spoonweaver recently made a chess-like board game called Dungeon Bout. That might be a good starting place too.

[kylekrack]

Ah, I didn't realize Dungeon Bout was available. I have yet to try it out, but I was thinking about it when I asked.

I also need to try out Phantom Tactics. I didn't know about this one. Looks pretty rad. It looks like I might make an attempt to add a tactical RPG to the collab after all.

EDIT: Phantom Tactics is phenomenal. I don't know if I'll be able to live up to this level of polish.