HamsterSpeak #31 Online

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HamsterSpeak #31 Online

Post by The Wobbler »

http://superwalrusland.com/ohr/issue31/cover.html

To the surprise of everyone, HamsterSpeak #31 is here! I suffered multiple hardware failures in the last week, so I apologize for the delay. We've got lots of reviews, new features, and the return of Ask Surlaw. Remember to vote for your favorite articles! You can select as many as you like.
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Post by JSH357 »

Doesn't Gato Sucio already have like, three reviews? There are "real" OHR games with less than that. :/

I liked most of the reviews this issue, though I couldn't really pick one out as my favorite, so I didn't vote for any of them. Good work, fellows.

Momoka's article, once again, was great and used good examples. It got a little silly and over the top at times, but that sort of fit in with the theme of the article. Looking forward to more.

OK, about "In Pursuit of Pleasure." I really hate having to call something out like this, but the tone of this article turned me off from the very beginning. Even though the author has some interesting things to say, the fact that he basically just called me and every other OHR developer a mental patient doesn't sit well. The tone was actually so harsh and biased that I ended up only trying to find things I hated about the article (reminded me of playing Sword of Jade). I will refrain from actually pointing out my issues with the arguments since they likely sprang from my distaste for the tone.

Instead I'll just say, Taylor Bair or anyone planning on writing an article, before you go telling people how to create any kind of work, keep in mind the most important rule: Know and respect your audience. They will be the ones reading your writings, and you do not want them to lose respect for YOU from the get-go. This article reminds me of the time Squall came back to Castle Paradox and started bashing every developer in the community and then tried to give them advice. It made me lose a lot of respect for him, even if he did have a legitimate argument. I'm not saying Taylor Bair needs to apologize for this article, but I caution any author against making the same error. The intent was to educate, not to offend, but it did a better job of pulling off the second for me.

James's article was fantastic; my favorite of the issue. Please pick something besides Bob Surlaw or Mr. Triangle for the next one, thanks. I'm getting tired of seeing them in everything.

I wanted to write a review for Sleepover for the next issue, but I don't think it's going to happen. I just hope it doesn't get panned for basically being Charbile-talk when it's such a cool game.
Last edited by JSH357 on Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by The Wobbler »

JSH357 wrote:Doesn't Gato Sucio already have like, three reviews? There are "real" OHR games with less than that. :/
The Special Edition has some pretty significant differences from the old one, and it doesn't have any reviews in HamsterSpeak. It's too bad 8bit hadn't played the original in order to compare the two, but it's a fairly different experience.
OK, about "In Pursuit of Pleasure." I really hate having to call something out like this, but the tone of this article turned me off from the very beginning. Even though the author has some interesting things to say, the fact that he basically just called me and every other OHR developer a mental patient doesn't sit well.
I agree with you completely.
James's article was fantastic; my favorite of the issue. Please pick something besides Bob Surlaw or Mr. Triangle for the next one, thanks. I'm getting tired of seeing them in everything.
I agree with this too. It will be hard to find authors to consistently put as much into an Icons article as James did, because he really went all out here, and it's wonderful. If I do one, it won't be for Surlaw, and it won't be any time soon.
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Post by RMZ »

Wow, the issue filled out very nicely. I was afraid it wasn't going to have much at all.

In regards to the Icons article. This is something I'm trying to organize to kind of help Surlaw out. Mr.Triangle was going to be next, to give other people I've asked, a bit more time with theirs. I'll bug a couple other people and see about having them be bumped, and save the Mr.Triangle one for a few months from now.
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Post by Pepsi Ranger »

OK, about "In Pursuit of Pleasure." I really hate having to call something out like this, but the tone of this article turned me off from the very beginning. Even though the author has some interesting things to say, the fact that he basically just called me and every other OHR developer a mental patient doesn't sit well. The tone was actually so harsh and biased that I ended up only trying to find things I hated about the article (reminded me of playing Sword of Jade). I will refrain from actually pointing out my issues with the arguments since they likely sprang from my distaste for the tone.
Ironically, the article talks about finding things we hate about someone's work. I know your reasons and the article's reasons live in separate camps, but I can't help but wonder if the tone was established partly to increase this feeling. I'm probably reading in to it too deeply, but I do find it funny that an article that talks about making people unsettled can unsettle people.

And I think the article was implying our lack of perfection and the impossibility of making the best game ever. I don't think it was trying to insult anyone, as the author essentially included himself in the equation. I think he was just commenting on the human need to strive for perfection, and ways to draw closer to it, and how perfection can never be fully reached. I don't think he was trying to slap anyone in the face, other than maybe to wake them out of mediocrity (which explains the segment about wandering NPCs). Yes, the statement was jarring, but when you consider it in context with his point, it really isn't malicious. I'd say that the only real problem was to use it in the introduction. In that sense I can see where it would put readers off. But again, if you take it in context, you'll see that this is merely a case of semantics.

Which brings us to Momoka's article. Synonyms really don't share connotations, as the above statement implies. "Handicap" is more offensive than "imperfect," even though both mean essentially the same thing. This was an excellent observation on Momoka's part. And I enjoyed the opening section with the points of view. It brought me back to my old writing workshop days and left me feeling twenty-one again.

This really was a great issue. Everything fit together. It still feels a little Surlaw-Mr. Triangle-Vikings-centric in places, but I'm glad steps are being made to bring other characters into the limelight per the request for future OHR Icons. I think I'd be interested in reading character profiles for game heroes next time (that maybe include one of those cool red strip decoder stat files that used to come on the back of old Transformers boxes). Game stars get too much glory. When's Dusty and Havoc going to have their own features?
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Post by Momoka »

And I think the article was implying our lack of perfection and the impossibility of making the best game ever.
Except that it kept going "Look at Genesis!", so it ended up more as "You'll never make a game as good as mine".

It's annoying, because the advice is sound, if generic (Try hard!), except it's wrapped up in flowery megaslime and toxic levels of smug.

It's true, that anyone who's giving advice in the first place thinks they're at least above average in whatever field they're talking about (myself included :kamina:), but this specific article....

There was very little real content. It wasn't a feature, so much as an unpaid advertisement for Genesis.
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Post by Lucier »

i have to disagree with you momoka. yes, to give advice is to admit you feel you know at least a little more about a subject than others. but by no means is my brother saying our game is perfect! we have a lot more to learn about game design and about 5 more years of hard work we'll need to pour into that game before it's even close to where we want it to be.

there are some things we've included in genesis that we do see missing from other OHR games that could make the other games better, and he just wanted to show those. and the fact that everyone is getting offended by being called out for their mediocrity is a good thing, it's something we should all keep in mind when working on our games. either we can settle for the easier route and risk making our game less immersive, or we can spend the extra hour really touching up and adding those final details that will help our game rise above the rest. take a step back and let the bad feelings you got from the article subside and then give his game design advice another read through, i actually really think he's included some really neat and fun suggestions to try in your game! the idea honestly wasn't to try and pretend Genesis is the best game, it was to light a fire inside everyone to make the best game possible.
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Post by JSH357 »

That may be, but there is no reason to resort to using ad hominem remarks such as "all OHR developers are mental patients" to get a point across. This type of language is not going to make people take their work more seriously; it will only make them angry at the writer. Maybe I'm easily offended, but I'm clearly not the only one who responded this way.

I don't understand what is so unclear about this.
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Post by Lucier »

i agree the word choice could have been selected a little more carefully, but the fact that he's including himself in that group of handicapped game makers should alleviate some of the tension, we don't think we're better than anyone else. we're in the same boat as everyone else, just trying to make a good game despite our lack of knowledge in the field and other obstacles that may keep us back from our goal.
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Post by The Wobbler »

Lucier wrote:i agree the word choice could have been selected a little more carefully, but the fact that he's including himself in that group of handicapped game makers should alleviate some of the tension
Honestly, the self-deprecating bits just came off as general angst, which on top of the overall smugness left a really negative impression.
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Post by Bob the Hamster »

I think Taylor's article was pretty good. And the high quality of Genesis does lend it extra credibility.

The metaphor that everybody seems offended by is the "colony of handicapped" people one at the beginning, and I was taken aback a bit by that at first too, but having thought about it, I think it is not a terribly bad metaphor.

We measure the success of our games against other OHRRPGCE games, not against professional commercial games. In a way we are like an art class full of people who are handicapped by the limitations of the OHRRPGCE engine, and when we get together and praise one another on our work, that praise can sound pretty strange to someone who is comparing an OHRRPGCE game to some other game that is not made in the same environment.

Of course, I wouldn't agree that the world of professional big-team game making is the "Real World" of game making.

For someone trying to get a job with SquareEnix it might feel like OHRRPGCE is "nothing like the real world"

But what if you take a different definition of the "Real World?" Compare OHRRPGCE games to typical cell-phone games, and I think they are actually very competitive.

It is all a matter of perspective.

Anyway, my point is that I am taking Taylor's article as what I think it was intended: an exhortation to work hard and make great games, and I am willing to overlook the tone and sharp words.

Moving on to other articles:

The Wandering Hamster review lit a bit of a fire under me. I think the battles are boring too, and RMZ is just the latest in a string of people to ad their voice to a similar chorus. It is hard to make interesting unique battles for the OHRRPGCE standard battle engine. So I was motivated to write down <a href="http://gilgamesh.hamsterrepublic.com/wi ... immicks">A list of Enemy Gimmick ideas for Wandering Hamster</a>. Doing this gives me a good idea on what new engine features I should focus on after the Ypsiliform release. I would welcome other suggestions for battle "Gimmicks" that you would like to be able to do, but can't think of a way to do.
JSH357 wrote:James's article was fantastic; my favorite of the issue. Please pick something besides Bob Surlaw or Mr. Triangle for the next one, thanks. I'm getting tired of seeing them in everything.
I did a double-take when I read this. I had forgotten I wrote it! :P

I guess I enjoy talking about myself :)

Also, I am going to take a guess that in the original version of the cover art, Fenrir drew Neke without the top-straps, and Surlaw talked him into adding them. Am I close? ;)

EDIT: On closer examination, I am willing to guess that even her folded arms on Mr Triangle's head are an add-in
Last edited by Bob the Hamster on Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by The Wobbler »

James Paige wrote:The metaphor that everybody seems offended by is the "colony of handicapped" people one at the beginning, and I was taken aback a bit by that at first too, but having thought about it, I think it is not a terribly bad metaphor.
It implies that the handicapped are fooling themselves when they think they've done something as good as the "regular" people. It also compares their/our accomplishments to a parent placating a toddler by telling them their scribbles are worth something. It's a really bad metaphor, especially since some of the games made here actually are just as fun to me as some "real" games, and I'm not just saying that to please their authors.
James Paige wrote:Also, I am going to take a guess that in the original version of the cover art, Fenrir drew Neke without the top-straps, and Surlaw talked him into adding them. Am I close? ;)

EDIT: On closer examination, I am willing to guess that even her folded arms on Mr Triangle's head are an add-in
Nothing was edited, and the cover was submitted like two months ago, which is a welcome change, because I'm usually waiting for covers until the very day the issue goes live. I can see what you're saying, because her sides look weird, but if anything was changed, it was before I ever saw it.

On Wandering Hamster's battles; The only time I found the game outright boring was the mountain. There were too many battles, and they took too long. The rest of the game's battles really didn't bother me. Really, I don't mind battles being vanilla, as long as they're short. Whether I win or lose, I don't like spending a long time in each battle.
Last edited by The Wobbler on Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by xvi revya »

Note also the nonverbal greetings. Sometimes characters say more when they don't say anything.
*nod*

EDIT: I just noticed Momoka posted the same things. Removed them so that I could avoid sounding like an echo. :hurr:
Because, let’s be honest with ourselves for a moment, it isn’t really the game itself we wanted. It was that feeling all along. The feeling that comes with something we are proud of- something we find true pleasure in.
Why did this hit me like a brick?

Nothing to say about "Ask Surlaw". I don't quite get how it works, so meh.. :hurr:

Haven't checked the reviews since I've never played any of those games yet.
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Post by Uncommon »

RMZ's Wandering Hamster review wrote:and it's been over ten years since its last update up until recently
Uhh, I haven't been in the community ten years yet, but I know it's been updated since I joined. (hell, it's only a little older than ten years)
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Post by The Wobbler »

xvi_revya wrote:Nothing to say about "Ask Surlaw". I don't quite get how it works, so meh.. :hurr:

Haven't checked the reviews since I've never played any of those games yet.
You ask random questions and get silly answers. All of the questions are from community members, and the "story" follows accordingly. The only outside knowledge you need is "This Surlaw thing is a character from a game."

Part of the purpose of reading reviews is to determine whether or not a game sounds like its worth playing.
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