Ridiculous Games Contest 2020 - The 1998 one

Make games! Discuss those games here.

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Fenrir-Lunaris
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Post by Fenrir-Lunaris »

I've just now noticed that the guidelines say to take into account how much the games FEEL like a game from 1998-2002. I suppose I'll just have to err on the side of interpreting that as vaguely as possible!

I've played four of these games to completion already and started a bit on A Quest, and for the most part agree with Nathan concerning overall quality versus how much they feel like a "Legacy OHR Game". Union Tour and Hakei by and far are the prettiest looking of the batch, which is something that was incredibly rare to see way, way back when.

Hakei is incredibly "experimental" in its presentation that it deserves a look all on its on. It's also INCREDIBLY cryptic, and everything only makes sense once you've gone through it already. Mostly. As far as classic OHR games go where you're (usually) collecting mysterious ORBS on a bizarre adventure, this one nails that premise while completely avoiding the combat aspect of legacy OHR games altogether. I can't really fault that decision, but this feels more like a point and click exploration title than an RPG.

Union Tour, despite sticking extremely close to the restrictions games back in 199X had to deal with, doesn't feel like an older game at all. It's well paced, the story and characters feel well planned out, and battles for the most part are more than just "hold down spacebar to win". It's also gorgeous, which is to be expected from a Feenicks game. The thing is, none of these things were the norm in the past. Dungeons being incredibly long and convoluted, and sudden changes in difficulty were absolutely "features" of OHR games at the time, but everything else I've mentioned feels so out of place compared to the abundance of truly painful RPG experiences that existed in the earliest days of the community.

Epic Fantasy I on the other hand... absolutely could've existed in 1999. Graphics that look like they took no more than 5 minutes to make - Check. Usual assortment of personality-less characters who join for no reason - Check. Ripped graphics and out of place music - Check. Spelling errors and adult language dropped whenever possible - Check. Pop culture references that feel dated - Check. The classic sandsea.bmp - Check. I swear that I've played this game before, except the main character was a piece of white bread...

I haven't played much of A Quest aside from the first 10 minutes or so. The basic jist is that A Quest is another game by Nathan that automatically feels like a game from 1999, because all his games look and feel like they could've come out of 1999. But that feels mean spirited, and I don't mean to make fun of a guy who VERY MUCH loves making games and art and telling silly stories. Graphically there's not much here that stands out to me, but then again I'm not a big fan of exclusively using the top row of the classic OHR palette. Nathan's definitely in his element with this contest, and I owe it to myself to keep playing.

I playtested way way WAY too much of Puppy Adventure to give it a fair shake. It uses status effects and a few things in combat that weren't added until 2002 or so, which in all likelihood makes it the most "modern" feeling game on this list. It also goes out of the way to provide the player with INFORMATION on the abilities and tactics available to the player through the game - spell descriptions exist, and there's even an in-game library that can be accessed that also provides quick teleportation. The one thing that games back in 1999 weren't designed around was PLAYER CONVENIENCE, and on that point Puppy Adventure fails spectacularly - and I wouldn't change that at all. In fact, I may decide to double down on that aspect in the future. I don't enjoy grinding just to progress, and I certainly don't like wandering around while dealing with overly cryptic clues that don't actually point me to where I need to go. I did make it a point to stick with as low a color limitation as possible - the palette I stuck with is VERY similar to Nathan's preferred medium with a few minor changes.

Actual scores to come at a later date, once I've got the rest of the batch done.
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Post by Nathan Karr »

Spirit of 1998
"This feels like an old game" tier
1 - Ultimate Fantasy
2 - Crazy Computer Competition
3 - A Quest

"An effort was made" tier
4 - Union Tour
5 - Bok's Expedition
6 - Puppy Adventure

"Did you even read the rules?" tier
7 Reversal
8 Hakei
9 E-D

How Much Fun is It To Play?
"This is actually pretty fun" tier
1 Puppy Adventure
2 A Quest*
3 Bok's Expedition
4 Union Tour

"At least it's a game" tier
5 Crazy Computer Competition
6 Hakei
7 Ultimate Fantasy

"It's been almost 20 years since this has been called the HORRIBLE games contest and about 10 since it was called the TERRIBLE games contest" tier
8 Reversal
9 E-D

* I was going to place this around 4 or 5 initially but I had an absolute blast playtesting it, have run through it multiple times playing with different character builds, and couldn't in good faith vote it LESS fun than the two games I respect, but didn't finish playing, both of which fought with Puppy Adventure for the top three spots until I came to that decision.


Now for my deeper thoughts on each game in alphabetical order.
A Quest
I put a lot of effort into not making the game feel too modern - no items that call textboxes out of battle, no item-cost spells, the character I was initially going to make a thief becoming a martial artist/skirmisher type instead, no buffs/debuffs/status moves...heck I originally wanted to include spell descriptions and attack captions but had to remove those. To play it completely safe I even avoided features I THINK were around before 2002 like chaining, spawning, and attack animations other than Strike and Cast.

I found it an absolute blast to try to balance a game around the only attack options being damage or cure, target stats of HP and MP.

The most modern things I did were basing generic forest fairies off of Natalie and my music choices referencing Spellshard: The Black Crown of Horgoth from 2004 (its music in turn all being from other games before 1998 anyway), followed by making a concentrated effort to not have any spells/attacks be completely useless or redundant.

I had a huge amount of fun making and testing this game. It has some points where you need to experiment and be willing to try again after dying, and since I wasn't allowed to use Pause on All Battle Menus I decided to go with the much more dangerous option I almost never use, having battles go on even when you're in the item and spell menus. I only barely talked myself into letting inns revive heroes instead of using my invisible NPCs and negative harmtiles trick to make a separate revive cleric shop.

I tried to use NPCs and their dialog to teach players less-obvious mechanics like wild but natural animals resisting holy attacks or the fact that items can teach spells without either breaking the game's immersion or requiring unnatural levels of intuition or experimentation.

I can only hope other people are up to the challenge of seeing this through to the end, since I decided this contest was the perfect time to be less merciful than usual.


Bok's Expedition
I rated this game very highly in both categories and for good reasons. I always love seeing Fnrrf's works, though I don't think I've ever completed even one of the games he's made no matter how much I enjoyed it? I still haven't beaten this one, nor Puckamon or Okedoke before it, but I expect to return to this one over the next few days and keep attempting to win. How long can it be, after all?

I love how the characters' weapons don't perfectly line up with their hands - that's a touch a lot of other games in this contest were missing out on! What I did manage to get through before my characters were killed by a treasure chest seemed really good.


Crazy Computer Contest
The game isn't very fun, but it actually feels like a more off the wall and abstract early OHR game. Since there's no grinding, it feels like there's some sort of puzzle to the combat system I'm just not getting, and that's why I can't beat the second battle. That there's some ideal combination of buying certain computers and accessories that will lead to a reliable victory and I'm just not seeing it from the information given.

E-D
Box edges...main character's walkabout being one of the new defaults automatically included and combat sprite not at all matching it...player formation location moved from default position...not being able to open the menu with ALT/ESC for no reason. You had to go out of your way to violate the spirit of the contest this badly, even if the dialog and presentation were otherwise fitting.

This is one of two games I played through using the F11 key to skip around the map and F7 to skip the fights. Good job at making the gameplay part unfun at least.


Hakei
I appreciate the OHR community cameos, but nothing about the presentation of this game feels 1998. Altered font, seems to be using layered tiles or slices in places, DISABLED THE MENU, heck the entire aesthetic screams "Post Yume Nikki abstract surrealist adventure" and not "1998 OHR game". I honestly can't tell in places if the game is breaking the rules or going out of its way to look like it is, and I don't think the puzzle part is solvable. You just explore four rooms, talk to NPCs who don't say anything intelligible, sometimes a backdrop graphic of Charbile or SwordPlay fills the screen, and there's nothing you can do.

The music is a nice, unsettlingly off-model version of OHR default music and I love the cute low-res sprites. I just don't think it's any fun and don't think it fits the spirit of the contest, even if it's ripe for an expansion outside the scope of the contest at some point.


Puppy Adventure
I started getting riled a little by this game as soon as I stepped into the library and it said poison, sleep, mute, and buffing spells were implemented. I was looking forward to seeing how Fenrir's newer game design sensibilities would work if his only options were the fighter, white mage, and black mage archetypes instead of his usual array of six. What we get instead is exactly every game he's made since The War on Xmas, which is a good gameplay framework, confined to small maps and few NPCs.

I found this game the most fun to play of the whole contest. I actually beat it without cheating, unless you count exploiting the rampantly broken wall passability map to skip parts of some of the mazes cheating.

While the game seems to use the classic palette, not much effort seems to have been put into making the textbox styles line up with their old defaults. Still, love this way better than the "better" palette that's the default nowadays.

Also there's some lewd humor in this game, and even as an avid consumer of erotic materials I have to say it's a bit too far considering the main cast are literally supposed to be small children. If it was confined to some of the weapons being implied to be sex toys the children find around the house or there being pictures of naked people hanging on the walls for them to comment on I'd give it a pass, but there's a scene where one of these CHILDREN sodomizes the babysitter/housekeeper with her rolling pin and another SMALL CHILD comments that this is "hot". You'd think a game where the main characters are children who can't even speak full sentences from the adult perspective would be the time to hold back on that kind of stuff?


Reversal
It sure is a slimy RPG, alright. And not even the worst one here! I was immediately put off by seeing textbox border images and character portraits. The gameplay itself doesn't seem to be a violation, for what little I played. I hated this game enough that when I died, I didn't even bother trying to beat it using the debug keys to skip the fights.

Ultimate Fantasy
My thoughts on it mostly echo Fenrir's: this game really hits the old OHR jank feel the strongest for both good and bad. I found the random battles completely unwinnable and started hitting F7 to skip them but still get the rewards, accidentally also hitting the million experience key as well. Even at stupidly high levels the random battles still felt tedious-to-unwinnable without cheating. Wound up using F11 to skip through the walls and accidentally won without ever getting Quaker Oats into my party, bringing back nostalgic memories of using Woogie instead of Joe in my fights in the last leg of Arfenhouse 3.

In terms of being a fun game? Garbage. In terms of actually fitting the concept of the contest and not randomly copping out for the sake of "player convenience" or "fun"? This game is ART.


Union Tour
Like all of Feenick's games, I respect it a lot more than I like it. In fact I can't remember enjoying playing a single one of his games so far, this one coming the closest to me finding it fun without an asterisk or air quotes, and I might actually go back and finish it after I'm done with Bok's Expedition. Graphically it feels like every other Feenick game, only the main character being a tiny bit less well-drawn? I love the battle sprites for Mau and Talc, but Thorn just looks like a blob of bright magenta with ill-fitting brown skin blobs on her face and hands, both in battle and out of it, slightly worse on her downward-facing walkabout than elsewhere. The other characters all looking so much better only makes her appearance feel a bit more jarring.

Main character aside, the graphics look great - just like what you'd see in the games that actually put effort into the art back in the day, or which put a bit of effort into ripping graphics from SNES or PS1 games correctly.

I can't really connect with the characters or story on any level. Whatever was in the text boxes, my eyes glazed over it and just know I need to fight a demon to get rid of some thorny vines, and those thorny vines are blocking off a treasure chest I saw on my walk between the two identical-looking bleak cityscapes.

That said, I'm actually enjoying the combat even with it just boiling down to physical attack, magic attack, and healing. This game actually feels like it had thought put into its spells and a real attempt made to make the options distinct and meaningful without falling back on the safe and comfortable stun/poison/mute or in-battle stat boosts. I think it's fun enough that while I couldn't make myself finish it the first time I booted it up, I actually do intend to boot it up again and finish it later.
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Post by Fenrir-Lunaris »

Nathan Karr wrote: Puppy Adventure
I started getting riled a little by this game as soon as I stepped into the library and it said poison, sleep, mute, and buffing spells were implemented. I was looking forward to seeing how Fenrir's newer game design sensibilities would work if his only options were the fighter, white mage, and black mage archetypes instead of his usual array of six. What we get instead is exactly every game he's made since The War on Xmas, which is a good gameplay framework, confined to small maps and few NPCs.
If it's not broken don't fix it. Though in addressing the "fighter, white mage, black mage" archetypes, had I gone that route the "bard" would've had a little bit of everything.
Nathan Karr wrote: I found this game the most fun to play of the whole contest. I actually beat it without cheating, unless you count exploiting the rampantly broken wall passability map to skip parts of some of the mazes cheating.
High praise! Though in fairness, most games made back in 1999 were barely playtested at all and had broken wallmaps everywhere. Sometimes there wouldn't even BE walls, so, par for the course.
Nathan Karr wrote: While the game seems to use the classic palette, not much effort seems to have been put into making the textbox styles line up with their old defaults. Still, love this way better than the "better" palette that's the default nowadays.
The old "default" is to completely ignore the size of the textbox in proportion to the amount of text that's in it, OR to completely disregard any sense of consistency!
Nathan Karr wrote: Also there's some lewd humor in this game
I mean, this IS a Fenrir game we're talking about. But also that was pretty standard for the longest time back in 1999. People got a little wild with the freedom and power to tell any story with no filters back then too.
Nathan Karr wrote: You'd think a game where the main characters are children who can't even speak full sentences from the adult perspective would be the time to hold back on that kind of stuff?
Point taken, and there's an update. I've also included one with ARTISANAL SOUND EFFECTS for those who've already had one run through, for giggles (it would've been an April Fools thing, but eh). Have fun!
Last edited by Fenrir-Lunaris on Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by lennyhome »

Do I need to call Chris Hansen here? Just kidding. I'm not into anything furry at all, but as somebody who can't draw anything, I've played a couple of Fenrir-Lunaris games just to look at the graphics.

Of Puppy Adveture I appreciate the fact that you can Awoo on command. I've spent the first 10 minutes running the players caravan like a snake around the squares on the pavement of the first room and I found doing that strangely satisfying.

Also, how are you supposed to make a game that looks like it was made in '92 if the protagonist isn't Kurt Cobain?
Last edited by lennyhome on Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by Fenrir-Lunaris »

lennyhome wrote:Of Puppy Adveture I appreciate the fact that you can Awoo on command. I've spent the first 10 minutes running the players caravan like a snake around the squares on the pavement of the first room and I found doing that strangely satisfying.
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Post by Nathan Karr »

Fenrir-Lunaris wrote:If it's not broken don't fix it. Though in addressing the "fighter, white mage, black mage" archetypes, had I gone that route the "bard" would've had a little bit of everything.
Yeah. If I'd been designing a party with that setup, the fighter's special techniques would've been type-killer, extra damage, and never miss, the bard would've gotten one or two of those, the spread heal (or perhaps a weaker version of it than the white mage), and one of the black mage's attack spell elements but not the other two.

Instead the party for my game was Cleric, Fighter, Wizard, Monk.
Fenrir-Lunaris wrote:The old "default" is to completely ignore the size of the textbox in proportion to the amount of text that's in it, OR to completely disregard any sense of consistency!
I was actually referring to the colors of the textboxes and menus themselves. A Quest was initially going to use the top 16 colors on the palette for all the textboxes, then I looked at actual old games for comparison and saw how much darker/less saturated the default box colors actually were. With a little lamentation, I toned my brightness down to match the old boxes and made sure each box style was correct so the special screens like the status screens and main menus still matched up.

To be fair, it is a huge pain in the butt to restore the old defaults when you replace the "new, better" palette with the classic high saturation palette, since none of the box styles/interface colors map well to each other between the two.





One thing I'd like everyone's feedback on after playing A Quest is which artefact they chose from the fairy forest and what their experiences with it were like.
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Post by Bird »

In a strange dream, some unspecified life form stole every single graphic, Feenicks has made so far and put them all together in a big game.

I must say, that you two here, Nathan and Fenrir, and Feenicks, too, made the battle system without having any pauses at the menus a really big challenge. And especially the ability to recharge mana points (with "Awoo" in Puppy Quest)... it's something amazingly obvious, that can make long fights possible and adds some tactics in there. It would be a bit too simple, if there is one perfect spell of every of the four fighters against one specific enemy. That would get boring after a while.

Unfortuneatly, your games are somehow too good, to fit in the 1999 OHR scene. Downgrading to the lower capacity brain of your youth is surely not an easy task. So, be proud of the progress, you've made!
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Post by FnrrfYgmSchnish »

Bird wrote:Downgrading to the lower capacity brain of your youth is surely not an easy task.
That is definitely the truth! I didn't even attempt to do "actual 1998-style" graphics, aside from using the old palette and less black outlines than I usually go for, because I figured either I'd end up with something that was a little too Arfenhouse-ripoff-style if I tried to be lazy (and I didn't feel like going the joke-game route since I had a non jokey idea already), or it'd take me almost as long as making the whole game took just to get those done. Intentionally-bad is harder than it looks, especially when you have practice making not-bad graphics.

I remember for an art project back in college once I tried to draw/paint characters I made up in elementary school the way I'd draw them now, and on the other side of the page how they looked when I first drew them in 3rd or 4th grade. Sort of a let's-see-how-far-I've-progressed thing.

For how bad my art was in elementary school, it was surprisingly tricky to really grasp how kid-me drew things on a level that let me imitate it well enough to look like the "old half" could've been drawings that had existed back then rather than just some 20-something guy trying (and failing) to draw like a little kid. Trying to imitate the "little kid drawing fast on the back of his worksheet with a cheap ball-point pen while the teachers aren't looking" rushed sloppy "style" after I'd gotten so used to years of doing things like... using good pencils rather than crappy pens, and erasing if I mess up... was actually much, MUCH harder than just drawing them the way I do now.
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Post by Nathan Karr »

I definitely couldn't completely "downgrade" my art to what it was like in 2004 and earlier either. For example, my grass tiles aren't airbrushed even if the sand tiles are, my slime, Bubble Leader, UniBlock, and a few other monsters lean ever so slightly towards the right instead of truly facing the player straight on, and my skeletal monsters are drawn better than the skeletons I've drawn with full effort even as recently as 2018.

And my actual 1998 art style would've been to take a physical GameBoy and pause the walkabout sprites from Pokemon, Dragon Warrior, and Link's Awakening, painstakingly recreating them pixel by pixel in MSPaint. Doing this and editing them into different characters and color schemes was how I learned to do pixel art in general.

And having said these things, I don't think "the graphics look too good for 1998" is actually true, considering how good the sprites in Wandering Hamster were and how good ripped SNES Final Fantasy or RPG Maker artwork _could_ look if the thief bothered to adjust its palette correctly (other than walkabouts and tiles, which weren't of compatible sizes). "Game blatantly uses graphical features not present in 1998" however is something I will say and stand by, whether the use of these features makes the game look better or worse.
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Post by kylekrack »

I didn't realize voting was ending tomorrow so I played all the submissions in one sitting. Which, now that I'm at the end of it, I realize may not have been the best plan. I gave about 30 mins of playtime to each, so that I wouldn't be up all night doing this. Just know that I'm only judging based on the first 30 minutes of the game (if there were that many).

• General Vote:
1. Union Tour
2. Bok's Expedition
3. Hakei
4. Puppy Adventure
5. Ultimate Fantasy I, etc. etc.
6. Reversal
7. A Quest
8. Crazy Computer Competition
9. E-D

• 1998 Feeling:
1. Ultimate Fantasy I
2. A Quest
3. Crazy Computer Competition
4. E-D
5. Bok's Expedition
6. Puppy Adventure
7. Reversal
8. Union Tour
9. Hakei

If you would like to know why I ranked these the way I did, feel free to ask. I'd be happy to elaborate. At the moment I am too tired to write up whole explanations for all of them. So here's some random comments.

Union Tour just feels like a current OHR game. I wouldn't have guessed this was made using the constraints of the contest. That's why I ranked it so low on that list.

Bok's Expedition was really cool. I thought it struck a good blend of tough and doable. The fights didn't feel unfair, but I did feel like I had to pay attention if I didn't want to waste HP. The design was very fun. I like the aliens.

Crazy Computer Competition took me like 20 minutes to figure out what was even going on, and then I got smeared by the second fight 4 times in a row (I tried out 4 different computers, and they all got obliterated). I'm not sure if there's anywhere to grind or anything.

In Puppy Adventure, having to talk to the locked door before the stairs downward are open was unfortunate. I spent a long time walking in circles trying to find what I missed, since the barrier to downstairs was invisible (I assumed it was still there and didn't check). That being said, I liked the class types. Having a bard felt like a good 4th character that wasn't just filler. Oh, and I managed to get the last 2 killed before they ever hit Lvl 2, and I heavily considered just power leveling Kotaru with the doubled XP and having him plow through the game.
Last edited by kylekrack on Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by TMC »

kylekrack wrote:I didn't realize voting was ending tomorrow so I played all the submissions in one sitting.
Whaaaat?? Sorry, I'm as tardy as ever. Don't try waiting for my votes/feedback.

And my mystery game hasn't seen any progress either. I guess it will be released once everyone's forgotten about this contest. Too bad; I had been looking forward to competing for more than a year (Feenick's been talking about it for a long time), but I have only my own laziness to blame!
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Post by Fenrir-Lunaris »

kylekrack wrote:In Puppy Adventure, having to talk to the locked door before the stairs downward are open was unfortunate. I spent a long time walking in circles trying to find what I missed, since the barrier to downstairs was invisible (I assumed it was still there and didn't check).
Originally you could head downstairs first, but then I realized there wouldn't have been an in-story reason to go looking for a key if you didn't know WHY you needed it. As much as I don't like the "you need a McGuffin to continue" trope, I moreso despise a lack of hints for what you need to do next in an adventure.
kylekrack wrote:That being said, I liked the class types. Having a bard felt like a good 4th character that wasn't just filler.
As a general rule I tend to give each character in my games a primary role that they fill, with some sort of secondary function. This mostly comes down to "Melee fighter with a debuff ability" or "Healer who can also hit things with a hammer". This game doesn't stray TOO far from that rule, but allowing a traditional "White Mage" archetype to use heavy shields isn't something that you'd see very often.

Most RPGs tend to depict bards as a very niche role, where they sit in the back of the lineup and provide small buffs to the primary attackers. Occasionally you'll see them stuck with the "weird" abilities like calling forest animals to attack, or using status effects that practically never work. Both of those are fine, but I like to make at least one character the "Mario", where they're not awful in many roles, but aren't quite the master in any one particular field. In a party of specialists, having one guy who can serve as a pinch-hitter can occasionally work out.
kylekrack wrote:Oh, and I managed to get the last 2 killed before they ever hit Lvl 2, and I heavily considered just power leveling Kotaru with the doubled XP and having him plow through the game.
Speedrunning strats confirmed?
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Post by Feenicks »

Today's the last day to get your votes in. Here's how to vote, in case you don't want to go back a page.

I'll post the results tomorrow, and also be giving each game its own [likely contrived] '______ of 1998' title, along with a short writeup for each.
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Post by Arti »

Ultimate Fantasy I: The Secret Orb of the Power (DEMO) is possibly the worst game.
Reversal I can't exit of first room :P
Hakei is great but I don't get it.
Crazy Computer Competition is different to the rest
A Quest is a good game
Union Tour is thing that found in a 1998 OHR game
Bok's Expedition is the second best game in the contest
Puppy Adventure is the best of the contest
I no talked of my game E-D, obviously :)
Last edited by Arti on Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:32 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Post by Fenrir-Lunaris »

*General Enjoyment*

1. Puppy Adventure
2. Union Tour
3. Hakei
4. Bok's Expedition
5. Ultimate Fantasy I
6. Reversal
7. Adventure Quest
8. Crazy Computer Competition
9. E-D

*1999 Day of Lavos

1. Ultimate Fantasy I
2. Adventure Quest
3. E-D
4. Crazy Computer Competition
5. Reversal
6. Bok's Adventure
7. Hakei
8. Puppy Adventure
9. Union Tour
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