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Liquid Metal Slime
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 PostThu Apr 11, 2019 5:38 am
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I would like a way to start and stop GIF recording without hitting CTRL, since that both makes selections in battle and advances textboxes

I might want to start and/or end a recording on a textbox or a specific part of the battle controls

Super common to want that, actually
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Metal King Slime
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 PostWed Apr 17, 2019 12:38 am
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I agree, having to press Ctrl for Ctrl-F12 and various debug keys is very annoying. I've been meaning to make Shift an alternative for a long time.
Liquid Metal Slime
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 PostFri Jun 21, 2019 2:29 am
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I'm not sure how helpful it might be at this point, but zones have little built-in functionality, and I have an idea of how to make them versatile and useful without the need of plotscripts. If there is already a plan for how zones might get changed in the future, perhaps this could mesh with that in some way.

The concept is that each zone id on a map has a trigger and action. The trigger is something like the player entering a tile with the zone on it, etc. The action is like using an NPC: show a text box, run a script, etc. Bitsets could help cover edge cases or special behaviors. Extra data can remain as before.

Here's a more detailed outline of how I imagined it appearing in the editor:

Zone 1

    Name: string
    Trigger:
      0 = on enter
      1 = while inside
      2 = on exit
    Action:
      0 = none
      1 = show text box
      2 = enter battle formation
      3 = play sound
      4 = play song
      5 = use NPC
      6 = use Door
      7 = run script
      ... etc.
    Action Argument: number
    Bitsets
      - remove zone after trigger
      - etc...
    Extra Data...


I was thinking about this because I would really like to be able to play sounds when the player walks on certain tiles without having to use NPCs or scripts. Some of this is redundant to NPC behavior, but I feel that separating stepon events from interactable NPCs would help with map organization.
I can't write in cursive.
Liquid Metal King Slime
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 PostFri Jun 21, 2019 1:51 pm
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i like this
Quote:
0 = on enter
1 = while inside
2 = on exit


but I don't see the point with the other things as it's all built in npc stuff and would be about the same level of complexity to set these up.
The only thing here that wouldn't be very easily doable with npc's....or just doors, is the sound thing and I gotta say, it would be EXTREMELY easy to setup scripts for this.

Here::
Code:

Plotscript,sound one,begin
playsound(1)
end

Plotscript,sound two,begin
playsound(2)
end

Plotscript,sound three,begin
playsound(3)
end

Plotscript,sound four,begin
playsound(4)
end

Plotscript,sound five,begin
playsound(5)
end
Metal King Slime
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 PostFri Jun 21, 2019 3:11 pm
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Yes, a wide variety of zone triggers (and especially scripts and sounds) was the reason for adding zones in the first place, but it's something I never got around to. NPC movement zones was something I only thought of later.

And also triggers when NPCs enter/leave/each-step/are inside. I hadn't thought of "remove zone after trigger " though, that's nice.

I think Spoonweaver's point is that placing and inspecting zones is not a huge gain, because that's not very nice compared to placing NPCs. But they ought to be the default way to create step-on triggers, not NPCs, if only they were easier. I don't remember anyone ever giving me feedback on how to improve the zonemap editor, aside from a couple people telling me they didn't use zones because they were too scary/they didn't know how to use them. Suggestions for improving the editing mode very welcome. More is possible now that we have mouse support and higher resolutions.
Liquid Metal King Slime
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 PostFri Jun 21, 2019 8:46 pm
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The npc enters of leaves zone triggers would be huge.

The number 1 thing I dislike about zones is how you can't see them all on 1 screen at a time. I forget I have them sometimes when copying a map and things go a little crazy for a bit.
Metal Slime
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 PostFri Jun 21, 2019 9:58 pm
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Zones? what dat

feedback: i never use them. never told or sold on what they bring to the table.

suggestion: demo showcasing their power / give people an understanding of why bother, especially when one time use step on npcs are easy script triggers

edit
ADDITIONALLY, why we're on the subject...

the ohr had a good thing going with the step on npcs, it's one of the 'just ohr things' only true ohr bros can understand. so why take one of the unique special selling points and say, nah, let's do this other thing instead--forwhat i ask you. for what
Liquid Metal Slime
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 PostSat Jun 22, 2019 3:59 am
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I use zones often when I want an area of effect. Putting a bunch of stepon NPC instances all over the ground tends to make things busier than using a zonemap. I also know there won't be any interference with checks like "NPC at spot." In the editor, listing interactable NPCs among stepon NPCs always turns into poor organization habits for me.

As for the ease of playing a sound when stepping on a tile via scripts: I know. The idea is adding built-in functionality for it, as it's a fairly standard event. The fact that it's so easy to script that event is part of my argument for making it a non-scripted event. It's also worth mentioning many users don't like using plotscripting in general, and making it easier to trigger events without scripts is handy for some.

Zones have very little built-in functionality as is, and I was attempting to outline a simple execution that covers all the bases of what they could accomplish. Really just a trigger type + action is all this is intended to be. That's the most I could think of simplifying the execution. You should also be able to leave them alone and not change how zones exist now.

@charbile: I'm working on a demo that should show off something unique zones can do. I'll be back with that.
I can't write in cursive.
Liquid Metal Slime
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 PostSat Jun 22, 2019 6:14 am
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TMC wrote:
I think Spoonweaver's point is that placing and inspecting zones is not a huge gain, because that's not very nice compared to placing NPCs. But they ought to be the default way to create step-on triggers, not NPCs, if only they were easier. I don't remember anyone ever giving me feedback on how to improve the zonemap editor, aside from a couple people telling me they didn't use zones because they were too scary/they didn't know how to use them. Suggestions for improving the editing mode very welcome. More is possible now that we have mouse support and higher resolutions.


Wait, wut???

We had an entire thread about this.
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Liquid Metal King Slime
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 PostSat Jun 22, 2019 7:23 pm
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Quote:
It's also worth mentioning many users don't like using plotscripting in general,


Found the issue
Liquid Metal Slime
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 PostSun Jun 23, 2019 6:36 am
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I don't understand how to use zones so I still use stepon NPCs to mark borders of where wandering NPCs shouldn't wander into (like always making sure they can't block a door)

I tried setting a zone once to see how it worked and couldn't get it to do anything.
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Slime Knight
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 PostSun Jun 23, 2019 6:55 am
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I just remember this one time I had this problem in midgame ynah where an npc just gave zero sliming slimes about their zone, and nobody had any idea how to fix it.

I use them in high-traffic maps though, because npcs blocking doors is annoying.

Also, one feature I'd kind of want in the ohr is the option to use multiple fonts, so you could change the font for individual textboxes.
His expectation is to become a GAMESTAR
Metal King Slime
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 PostSun Jun 23, 2019 5:28 pm
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Well, it's a goal of this engine to avoid scripting whenever some feature that would be useful to plenty of people could be builtin instead.

This reminds me that I already implemented zone-based pathfinding costs, on James' suggestion, but didn't check it in to svn since I still wasn't happy that zones are a good way to define movement costs. I guess I should just go ahead, because it's done and it's useful.

charbile wrote:
feedback: i never use them. never told or sold on what they bring to the table.

Frankly the reason I never went to the effort of writing a HOWTO chapter or otherwise selling zones as something that everyone should use is because I still consider them totally unfinished. Without any of the triggers implemented, they're just barely useful without scripting.

As for your love of step-on NPCs, if you've only got a hammer the world is a simpler, more idyllic place where every problem is soluble because every problem is a nail. Limitations are soothing, an unconscious nostalgia for the long-forgotten walls of your crib.

Pepsi Ranger wrote:

I was going to reply with "My memory is awful" until I saw that that thread and HamsterSpeak article is over 8 years old!
I'll reread it, but at a glance I don't still don't see any feedback about the actual zonemap editor interface there, which is what I meant!

Spoonweaver wrote:
The number 1 thing I dislike about zones is how you can't see them all on 1 screen at a time. I forget I have them sometimes when copying a map and things go a little crazy for a bit.

At last -- thank you! I'll implement it.
I was going to do it today, but I just wasted about 5 hours trying to fix my ability to compile working builds of the OHR. Turns out I had mismatched gcc and binutils versions. Hmm maybe package managers which track dependencies aren't a bad idea afterall.

Idontknow wrote:
I just remember this one time I had this problem in midgame ynah where an npc just gave zero sliming slimes about their zone, and nobody had any idea how to fix it.

I guess you didn't ask me (or at least I don't remember).

Nathan Karr wrote:
I tried setting a zone once to see how it worked and couldn't get it to do anything.

Try this out: go to the zone map editor and zone ID 1 should be selected by default. Draw a simple line on the map, say an L shape of 5 tiles using the spacebar. Create an NPC set to Follow Walls (Right) (or Left) and Movement Zone: 1. Place the NPC inside the zone (otherwise it'll be stuck). This way you can make NPCs follow simple paths without bouncing invisible step-on NPCs.

Idontknow wrote:
Also, one feature I'd kind of want in the ohr is the option to use multiple fonts, so you could change the font for individual textboxes.

That's actually something I was thinking of adding quite soon. I already laid the groundwork for it many years ago, so should be straightforward.
Metal Slime
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 PostMon Jun 24, 2019 8:01 pm
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Roasted me! will cherish this day forever and ever.

I should have been more clear and less silly. From what I'm reading, zones seem like a great addition to the engine as path finding/npc walk zones. Maybe other stuff? That alone would be great though.

Meant more as in, the ohr already has built in design of placing tiles, placing npcs, placing walls, so could play on those basic design strengths to keep to theme. Even in the example of 'follows walls, movement zone L', that's conceptually the same janky setup of step on npcs to fake paths compared to creating a straight forward / arbitrarily defined path for an object to follow that one could then script around. I don't know, it's almost like it could all be simplified into placing objects and then define them as a npc, door, wall, zone, script trigger, etc.

wonder if it's possible to see everything at once. npcs, walls, doors, zones, minimap
Liquid Metal King Slime
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 PostMon Jun 24, 2019 8:55 pm
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charbile wrote:
wonder if it's possible to see everything at once. npcs, walls, doors, zones, minimap


this please
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