Kaiju Big Battel: Fighto Fantasy - Now available

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The Wobbler
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Post by The Wobbler »

Yeah, this will be the only demo release. Looking at likely releasing the demo on November 1st, to go along with our regular Wednesday posts, and then the full game very early next year.
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Post by The Wobbler »

This week's Kaiju Big Battel: Fighto Fantasy fighter is the Burger Bear! He's hairy, he's heroic, he's a hamburger. Burger Bear is here to test your strength in a series of progressively harder challenges. Each friendly fight with the Burger Bear is harder than the last but offers greater rewards! He might even bring some friends along for a fight or two.

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Post by The Wobbler »

Friday night (10/20)'s Kaiju fight is going to be streamed live on Twitch.tv as part of TwitchCon for anyone who wants to watch! 8 PM EST / 5 PM PST. There's going to be some game stuff shown. You might even get a better look at that arcade cabinet!

Also, here's our "release date" announcement graphic. Keeping it vague, but it's happening!

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Post by Pepsi Ranger »

Great promo art. Super hype.
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Post by The Wobbler »

Here's the link for anyone who wants to watch at 8 PM EST: https://go.twitch.tv/twitchpresents

Edit: New trailer! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvoYw2ceZos

Also here's a bunch of pictures from the event: https://www.facebook.com/SuperWalrusGam ... 6793297315
Last edited by The Wobbler on Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by The Wobbler »

Demo's live, a little bit early! Just for you guys. And anyone else who stumbles upon it, I guess. The Steam demo will be uploaded in early November.

https://www.slimesalad.com/forum/viewgame.php?p=131172

I'd love some feedback! Unfortunately I didn't hear a word from anyone at TwitchCon, so outside of my playtesters, there's been little to talk about. Let's hear from you guys!
Last edited by The Wobbler on Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by guo »

I have just found my entertainment for the next evening or two, thanks! What kind of feedback would you find most useful?
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Post by SwordPlay »

Here's feedback, criticising it as, or comparing it to, a commercial licensed prdouct/game. Well, a demo.

I might have some things different because I play-tested it in CUSTOM. Would that result in any changes?

OVERALL FEEL
The game has a nicely funky, retro vibe, with phat bass and chipsynth providing the emotional thrust and context of each scene.
The writing is accessible, unpretentious, light-hearted and informal, lending it credence as a casual game.
Personally, I would play this game if it had a tone like this throughout. However, I would honestly expect more, as well.
The game is classy and moderately styled/stylish. It compares well to old retro games.
However, (the demo) it is a little boring and slow. Especially environments and combat. It does not compare well to modern games.

BEST PARTS:
Sweet spot of music, art and writing makes it feel like an instant classic.

WORST PARTS:
Waiting for interesting stuff to happen. Game flow. Lack of dynamism.


STARTING IT UP
The very opening. Title card/s. Could have more "game-feel".
In professional games I'm more used to various title cards and a demo video, or some exposition or background, trivia or character bios.

Just filling it out with some random stuff would make it more exciting as well for the player.
This is the first thing a player sees the first, and every time, they turn on the game. Food for thought, at least.

An option to skip this would also be nice, especially if there is already a saved game file.

INTRO - TV EXPOSITION
The intro sequence was good. I enjoyed watching it. Good writing.
Displayed in a somewhat static way however.

SOUND/MUSIC
Music is really good and I'm not just saying that, and I wasn't really sure if I would like it or not. It's quirky, and off-beat, retro, yet modern. It's great for setting the tone!
But it is somewhat alienating, compared to the sounds of contemporary genres
The battle music could be improved/filled out a bit. It sounds okay.
SFX are alright.
Some SFX are a bit "sharp" and quite loud to my ears/headphones. Is that just me?

A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME
The theming/naming of the items is great. Good flavour text. I like the introduction to the Oil item. I think that's a good touch.
I think this "narrative voice" or "Passive voice" suits your game and style really well, and I'd encourage you to develop it to bring the best out of your talents and the game. It feels very natural.

FLAVOUR TEXT ON THE MAP
I would also love to see more, different, varied flavour text for things on the map.
There feels like quite a lot of "empty space" between "interesting parts", such that the artistic details become background noise to be filtered out.
I see that there are a few thousand textboxes. I am hopeful for the quality of writing, in general.

Silver Potato's opening
"SILVER POTATO! Kaiju's Tubular Tuber's come", whilst clever, didn't register at first, and on second inspection, doesn't read right,
due to the line ending abruptly and continuing on the next. It should start on a new line probably.
"SILVER POTATO!" would then also read better/clearly

BATTLE
battle looks nifty and professional. Feels well-balanced. I chose hard mode. It was too hard for me :( but I wanted to see all the enemies
I am surprised (saddened) that there was no animated enemies.

In general I find battle to be a bit on the slow side. I have no idea what pacing will be like in the finished game.

BATTLE BACKGROUNDS
Lights in the animated backdrops look good. Very professional and looks great.
However, some foregrounds seem plain, and the tiling is noticeable.
This is not the case with most battle backgrounds, but when the background stretches on all sides with repeating tiles (such as tiled floors) it makes it appear as if they are fighting in a wide open space

HERO POSITIONING
The heroes appear oddly placed with regards to the foreground, seeming much further to the back, even all the way up-to-the-wall, compared to the foreground, and there seems to be enough place for another hero battler.

IN HOT WATER
boiling water doesn't have any steam coming off it or wobble like superheated water? I think in some games they would tint it reddish or have puffs of smoke/steam. It looks like sparkly water. basically.

FOOD ATTACK ANIMATION
You could show bites being taken out of/disappearing from the food. Just a thought.

TEAM ATTACK
Attack animations 24 and 49 are really cool.
I think a huge aspect of wrestling is the social sphere. Being part of a group, affiliation, having someone there to help you (tag in/team up) metaphorically is a really big deal.
Wrestling is inately primal and speaks to people as communal, tribal, primitive beings. It's clique-y.
Being able to call someone into the battle arena feels somehow powerful.


FRIDGE
Potato's "Fridge". Why not "Freezer"? Just asking.
I expected this attack to stun/slow enemies as well. I actually expected secondary effects for most attacks.
How about secondary effects that can be added to Potato's attacks? Plain damage is quite boring (for magic!).

PUNS
I like the skeletons puns. "Bonely"? Okay that one made me laugh, but probably for the wrong reason. It's humerus though.
Would love to see more stuff like that. Not just puns though. Just tidbits. It makes that enemy EXTREMELY interesting, compared to others.
It reminds me of Earthbound where enemies would faff about in combat with random-ish actions

I'm a little surprised that plant-based enemies are not weak to ice.

THE ATTACK COMMAND
The only complaint about heroes? Quite a minor one really, since they are so well balanced. Here goes.
Personally, I abhor the idea of a generic "attack" command for different hero types. It's terribly boring and outdated.
That's a different story though.
You could/should also rename the command for different heroes.
Each character attacks in a different way, and that should be represented. "Boxing" vs "Kick" for example. It's important!
"Attack" is terribly boring, or have something unique for everyone.
Players have to read this EVERY SINGLE TURN and it becomes associated with each character by force of subconscious habit.

A generic "attack" is a common denominator that reduces the contrast of hero roles.
Special attacks, or unique battle menus enhance the distinctions between heroes, thematically and practically.
Kaiju are about as varied as they come, right?

Another example is some RPGs where each character gets different bonuses or effects from their (unique) basic attack, such as stun, piercing, elemental, drain, combo, critical, magic effect, etc.,
You could use this so Beetle's generic attack sometimes chained to a combo, or if Potato's attack drained MP or something like that.

SILVER POTATO'S KICK
I had trouble seeing Potato's attack animation, and players might need a little help to understand the battle scene. Specifically, Potato's 'B' frame appears to suffer from lack of definition. I had trouble making it out even in the editor.

REST
"Rest" is an important command, right?
I assume things will be changed for the final version? I find myself tapping the keys to speed up/skip things. But to no avail.
Even displaying the heroes battle sprite (animated or not) would be a nice touch, and displaying their health/mp as number or graphics filling up, along with appropriate sfx reinforces "game-feel".


SUMMARY
Great stuff, designed well and works fluidly and plays a charm.
Could use some polish and dynamism in menus, maps, combat etc.,
Looking through the file, it seems to be jam-packed with details.
I look forward to it.
Last edited by SwordPlay on Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by TMC »

Oh, cool! I'll take a look tomorrow. Busy day here.
If you were hoping for any engine features, it would be helpful if you re-iterated the requests because I can't remember all the stuff that gets requested (per-attack damage digit colours? What about depending on whether it hit/cured/missed/failed? I think RMZ mentioned making the victory box background non-fuzzy, too).
Virtuous Sword wrote:I might have some things different because I play-tested it in CUSTOM. Would that result in any changes?
Nope, aside from possibly seeing script error messages that would normally be hidden.
I am surprised (saddened) that there was no animated enemies.
I'm saddened too by this lack, in every game!
Last edited by TMC on Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Bob the Hamster »

So far I have had time to play up to getting Dusto Bunny, and beating the Abyss Master.

I am playing on "Normal" and it feels very challenging.

The balance feels good so far, although if you can accomplish similar balance with shorter battles, I think it would be beneficial. The battles feel like the enemies have a bit too much HP.

I love that there is flavor text on almost every dang thing :)

And of course, I love how everything looks.

I noticed that in the hero switching screen the check for whether you have pressed enter or space seems over-sensitive. If I hold the button a little too long, it selects, then deselects.

Without seeing the script, I am guessing you are using "key is pressed(scancode)" when a keyval(scancode) > 1 check might work better.

I also noticed that on the title screen "Continue" is always selected by default. You could check to see if all the save slots are empty, and if so, default to selecting the "New Game" menu it instead (let me know if you need help scripting any of that)
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Post by The Wobbler »

Thanks for the replies! Warning: Gigantic post ahead.
guo wrote:I have just found my entertainment for the next evening or two, thanks! What kind of feedback would you find most useful?
Any kind is good, I think we've bug tested pretty extensively so no need to worry about testing all the wallmaps or stuff like that. Just play as you would naturally.
Virtuous Sword wrote:Here's feedback, criticising it as, or comparing it to, a commercial licensed prdouct/game. Well, a demo.

I might have some things different because I play-tested it in CUSTOM. Would that result in any changes?
It shouldn't, but I didn't intend for people to poke around in there. It's not a big deal either way, but I removed a lot of content from the demo.RPG file's non-demo areas so no one can play with the other parts of the game yet.
WORST PARTS:
Waiting for interesting stuff to happen. Game flow. Lack of dynamism.
I don't know what "lack of dynamism" means. The game flow is significantly different in the full version, since the purpose of the demo was to show off diverse character styles and zones quickly. Each zone feels more organic when you're in it for 1-3 hours each, as opposed to jumping between styles here.
STARTING IT UP
The very opening. Title card/s. Could have more "game-feel".
In professional games I'm more used to various title cards and a demo video, or some exposition or background, trivia or character bios.
I don't think a demo video that plays before the title screen would be worth development time when YouTube exists. Also, I think 99% of people likely skip Attract Mode videos in home games.

The full game has an extensive character bio section players unlock in Hero HQ as they meet new characters, which should be great for people new to these characters.
Some SFX are a bit "sharp" and quite loud to my ears/headphones. Is that just me?
I have't noticed this, but I'm definitely curious if anyone else has. The exception being the explosion sound effect, which is intentionally loud. You can lower/raise music and sound effect volumes separately from the Settings menu.
FLAVOUR TEXT ON THE MAP
I would also love to see more, different, varied flavour text for things on the map.
By this do you mean different bits of text for repeated objects? Like, the player finds three barrels, and you'd expect each to have different text?
Silver Potato's opening
"SILVER POTATO! Kaiju's Tubular Tuber's come", whilst clever, didn't register at first, and on second inspection, doesn't read right,
due to the line ending abruptly and continuing on the next. It should start on a new line probably.
"SILVER POTATO!" would then also read better/clearly
I'm not sure what you mean here.
I am surprised (saddened) that there was no animated enemies.
If this is added to the engine I'm sure we'll update the game accordingly, but it would take a very long time.
In general I find battle to be a bit on the slow side. I have no idea what pacing will be like in the finished game.
I recommend trying Normal. Hard is manageable once you're really used to what each hero/enemy can do, but the fights are still naturally longer than Easy/Normal. In the full game, this can be mitigated by getting better gear/doing sidequests, but early in the demo your options are limited.
HERO POSITIONING
The heroes appear oddly placed with regards to the foreground, seeming much further to the back, even all the way up-to-the-wall, compared to the foreground, and there seems to be enough place for another hero battler.
Soda is messing with formations and layouts, so that should hopefully alleviate any weirdness.
FRIDGE
Potato's "Fridge". Why not "Freezer"? Just asking.
I expected this attack to stun/slow enemies as well. I actually expected secondary effects for most attacks.
How about secondary effects that can be added to Potato's attacks? Plain damage is quite boring (for magic!).
I actually wish I could use "Refridgerate" but it doesn't fit.

Potato's role is a straight damage dealer, and his magic stat allows for huge damage if you hit an enemy's weakpoint. Pedro Plantain is the character whose spells almost all have secondary effects, so giving them to Potato as well would cut down what makes Pedro unique.

The flow of the full game is built around players receiving more complex heroes as the game goes on. Beetle and Potato are simple characters to introduce you to the basic mechanics, but remain powerful throughout. Pedro and Slo Feng open up more complex options once you meet them, and Robox becomes the most complex of all.
I'm a little surprised that plant-based enemies are not weak to ice.
This will be more obvious in the full game, but they're growing in a frozen zone, so fire being their weakness is the most natural set up. Don't want them to have two weaknesses.
THE ATTACK COMMAND
The only complaint about heroes? Quite a minor one really, since they are so well balanced. Here goes.
Personally, I abhor the idea of a generic "attack" command for different hero types. It's terribly boring and outdated.
That's a different story though.
You could/should also rename the command for different heroes.
Each character attacks in a different way, and that should be represented. "Boxing" vs "Kick" for example. It's important!
"Attack" is terribly boring, or have something unique for everyone.
Players have to read this EVERY SINGLE TURN and it becomes associated with each character by force of subconscious habit.
I think it would be overly confusing to many players if everyone had a differently named but functionally identical Attack command. As for everyone not having an Attack command at all: That's too fundamental of a change to make at this point, but would be fun to design a whole game around that.
A generic "attack" is a common denominator that reduces the contrast of hero roles.
Special attacks, or unique battle menus enhance the distinctions between heroes, thematically and practically.
Kaiju are about as varied as they come, right?
Every hero has an extensive spell list. I don't think each of them having Attack and Item commands as well cuts down on what makes them unique. The game's difficulty is balanced around players extensively using hero abilities rather than selecting Attack every time, and each of them feel unique in that regard.
Another example is some RPGs where each character gets different bonuses or effects from their (unique) basic attack, such as stun, piercing, elemental, drain, combo, critical, magic effect, etc.,
You could use this so Beetle's generic attack sometimes chained to a combo, or if Potato's attack drained MP or something like that.
These abilities are added to the default Attack by equipable weapons (Pedro in particular has a whole bunch of them). There are only a few in the demo, but I think that's the kind of modifier that makes more sense via gear than defaults. It also makes gear feel more important than just increasing damage output.
SILVER POTATO'S KICK
I had trouble seeing Potato's attack animation, and players might need a little help to understand the battle scene. Specifically, Potato's 'B' frame appears to suffer from lack of definition. I had trouble making it out even in the editor.
Will look into this.
REST
"Rest" is an important command, right?
I assume things will be changed for the final version? I find myself tapping the keys to speed up/skip things. But to no avail.
Even displaying the heroes battle sprite (animated or not) would be a nice touch, and displaying their health/mp as number or graphics filling up, along with appropriate sfx reinforces "game-feel".
Stuff like this is still being worked on and will be polished before final release. I'll likely overhaul the appearance of the entire menu for checkpoints.
SUMMARY
Great stuff, designed well and works fluidly and plays a charm.
Could use some polish and dynamism in menus, maps, combat etc.,
Looking through the file, it seems to be jam-packed with details.
I look forward to it.
Thanks!
TMC wrote:Oh, cool! I'll take a look tomorrow. Busy day here.
If you were hoping for any engine features, it would be helpful if you re-iterated the requests because I can't remember all the stuff that gets requested (per-attack damage digit colours? What about depending on whether it hit/cured/missed/failed? I think RMZ mentioned making the victory box background non-fuzzy, too).
I think everything I absolutely need has been implemented by now (the additional map layers was an enormously helpful addition), but some of my leftover "Would be nice things" are:
-Two lines of text for item/spell descriptions
-Font colors for attack names/digits
-Ring/Wave attack animations looking too different between single/all targets. (Lower priority, just a nice option to have eventually)
-Option to allow some equipment to raise stats by a percentage rather than a set number
-Ability to equip a type of item in multiple slots (So we could have three accessory slots or whatever, with accessory items being equipable in any of them. This would be what I'd want the most)
-Percentage costs for spells in addition to standard MP costs.
Bob the Hamster wrote:The balance feels good so far, although if you can accomplish similar balance with shorter battles, I think it would be beneficial. The battles feel like the enemies have a bit too much HP.
This is a tough one to figure out; in earlier testing battles were shorter but you dealt/took more damage. You'd end the battles in almost the exact same shape you do now, but they were quicker.

The issue is some testers thought the enemies hit way too hard, even if you only got hit once or twice per fight. I'm pretty much constantly rebalancing stuff like this, trying to find a nice middle point.
Bob the Hamster wrote:I noticed that in the hero switching screen the check for whether you have pressed enter or space seems over-sensitive. If I hold the button a little too long, it selects, then deselects.

Without seeing the script, I am guessing you are using "key is pressed(scancode)" when a keyval(scancode) > 1 check might work better.
Thanks for that script suggestion, I'll look into it. There's definitely some key sensitivity issues, that sounds like a simple fix!
I also noticed that on the title screen "Continue" is always selected by default. You could check to see if all the save slots are empty, and if so, default to selecting the "New Game" menu it instead (let me know if you need help scripting any of that)
Thanks, this should also be a simple fix.
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Post by The Wobbler »

The Steam version of the demo's now live too! http://store.steampowered.com/app/61171 ... o_Fantasy/

Also, TMC regarding requests: I'd forgotten about it but I was reminded by a tester tonight, the only other feature I'm still asking for is improved controller support.
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Post by TMC »

Ah yes, those are pretty much all things I was planning to add sooner rather than later. I was going to start on some tonight but got distracted by dreary minutia in the music/sound import menu, just like always...

Anyway, some feedback. (I didn't read all of the other feedback) Firstly, of course, this is really nice! I love the graphics, and the game does a very good job of flowing well by not overdoing explanations or anything dull.
Maybe sometimes the explanations are a bit too short. Was it actually explained (beforehand) that resting at a beacon restores all enemies? It took me by surprise. And yeah, I guess longer spell descriptions would be nice to have, but figuring out how to use spells in RPGs is always rather trial-and-error.
I've only played for a short while yet. I also found it hard (playing on Normal difficulty), dying a couple times until I found Dusto, which makes a big difference. The only way I can think of to make the balance more even both for 2 and for 3 heroes at once is to be more generous with healing items at the start. The enmies do a lot of damage.

It's strange that in the second opening fight, Dr Cube runs off the screen when defeated, but when the battle ends, he's back in the ring. Why not end the battle immediately with enemy running/fading out, like in the first battle?

Seems odd that there's no sound effect for resting or saving at a beacon.
The game is pretty short on sound effects. Not having sfx for confirm or moving the cursor
is perfectly reasonable. (Wait a minute, the Order menu does have a cursor
sfx... strange inconsistency.)
But it seems slightly stranger that there's none for opening the main menu.
The sound for opening a chest in particular is grating.
Also, the default OHR sound effects you're using seem a bit inappropriate or flat in places
(various attacks) especially since they're purposefully 8-bit lo-fi.
Foxley was just previewing a large set of nice free sound effects he created with bxfr. Hope he releases that soon.

I didn't exactly write anything down, but I couldn't notice any stat increases after levelling up. Are there any? What's the benefit of levelling?

I see there's only a choice of two palettes. So the others are unlocked later?
Thanks for that script suggestion, I'll look into it. There's definitely some key sensitivity issues, that sounds like a simple fix!
As a rule of thumb, you should use only "keyval(key:whatever)>1" when you want to check for a key PRESS (almost always), and use only "keyispressed" when checking for a key being held down (pretty much just walking and autofire weapons)
Last edited by TMC on Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by The Wobbler »

TMC wrote:Maybe sometimes the explanations are a bit too short. Was it actually explained (beforehand) that resting at a beacon restores all enemies? It took me by surprise.
It's explained the first time you die, but otherwise it's just hinted at when you first rest. I can definitely expand that.
It's strange that in the second opening fight, Dr Cube runs off the screen when defeated, but when the battle ends, he's back in the ring. Why not end the battle immediately with enemy running/fading out, like in the first battle?
That's a good call. Maybe even have it end with a transmogrify attack that puts Cube in a "time out" pose.
Seems odd that there's no sound effect for resting or saving at a beacon.
The game is pretty short on sound effects. Not having sfx for confirm or moving the cursor
is perfectly reasonable. (Wait a minute, the Order menu does have a cursor
sfx... strange inconsistency.)
But it seems slightly stranger that there's none for opening the main menu.
The sound for opening a chest in particular is grating.
Also, the default OHR sound effects you're using seem a bit inappropriate or flat in places
(various attacks) especially since they're purposefully 8-bit lo-fi.
Foxley was just previewing a large set of nice free sound effects he created with bxfr. Hope he releases that soon.
Sound effects are very much a work in progress right now, I'm going to put more effort into those once the rest of the game's done. A bunch are placeholders for now. Looking forward to Foxley's pack!
I didn't exactly write anything down, but I couldn't notice any stat increases after levelling up. Are there any? What's the benefit of levelling?
Strength/defense/magic/mag defense all go up on level, but by marginal amounts. It makes a small difference, but it adds up.

HP and MP increases more significantly on level up, especially HP. Other than that, just unlocking new spells.
I see there's only a choice of two palettes. So the others are unlocked later?
Yep, you unlock them around the time you meet Robox in both the demo and the full game. The idea behind him is that since he's hacking everything else, he can hack the game itself, messing with your picture and sound if you allow him to.

Yes, I'm working on a mode where it plays a duck sound on each step.
As a rule of thumb, you should use only "keyval(key:whatever)>1" when you want to check for a key PRESS (almost always), and use only "keyispressed" when checking for a key being held down (pretty much just walking and autofire weapons)
This is great to know, thanks! Simple enough to change too.
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Post by Pepsi Ranger »

Yes, I'm working on a mode where it plays a duck sound on each step.
+2

I mentioned this privately when I tested the demo earlier, but it's worth mentioning again in public to rally support: Another engine thing that needs requesting that would help make this game even more awesome (especially if Wobbler implements it) is the ability to "tag in" or swap in new heroes during a fight, or replace fallen heroes with new ones--something similar to what FF6 does during the final battle against Kefka. This is the kind of game that would utilize that system well.

For "tagging in," a hero could be swapped out with the hero he tags in, similar to a transmogrification. For burning through the team, each fallen member could be swapped out for a hero in reserve until there are no reserves left; again, swapped-in hero could be chosen by player via menu, or automatically replaced if the game is written for that.
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