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Liquid Metal Slime
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 PostTue Jan 20, 2015 5:44 pm
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Dragons

Now that high-quality music is possible to include in OHR games, new challenges have arisen for developers using the engine. Music placement is an art, almost as much so as music composition. It's impressive how much an unfitting soundtrack can bring a game down. Dragons suffers from this, and it's a real shame since from what I can tell all of the music in the game was original. A fantasy RPG can have a pretty wide range of sounds that work, but the entire score to Dragons is some kind of new agey electronica that belongs in something else entirely. It isn't the worst music I've ever heard, granted, but when you're playing as a bunch of tiny sprites dealing damage to goblins and rats, you aren't thinking of grinding at the club or lazing around in an Apple store reading post-modern fiction.

The gameplay itself is straightforward. There's little to no story; you just get some traditional RPG heroes, go through some bland dungeon and fight some bland battles. The numbers scale really low, which is popular in OHR games for some unknown reason, but enemies have too much HP on the whole. I don't mind simplistic battle systems like this in theory, but even with the (really great by the way) turn-based battle settings on, Dragons is just tedious to play. It takes the entire party focusing on one rat to kill it, and then there are giant rats and even gianter rats.

A game like this needs a hook, I think. Something to spice it up and make me want to play it over the hundreds of similar game available to me at the push of a button. Sadly, a weird soundtrack just isn't the hook it needed.

Leaderboard
1. Megaman Sprite Game
2. Slimeomancy
3. Zero: Secret Pasts Collide
4. Dungeon Cards
5. Okedoke
6. Batman & Robin
7. Carcere Vicis
8. The Pumpkin Warriors
9. t4r4d1ddl3
10. Dragons
11. Graffiti Goose
12. Mr. Triangle's Adventure
13. Stand
14. Orange Monday
15. The Location
16. pH
17. Iron Galaxy
18. Munch-Meow
19. table
20. Elephants Most Wanted
21. Poot-Poot Rocket
22. Tetsuedo Demo
23. Rogue Demo
24. Fart
My website, the home of Motrya:
http://www.jshgaming.com
Liquid Metal Slime
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 PostWed Jan 21, 2015 3:32 am
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Doom Tactics

This game is called Doom Tactics on the game list. The zip file is tactics.zip. The rpg file is eubeta.rpg. The Title screen says Doom: Evil Unleashed. Make up your mind, dude.

While this game has improved since I played it several years ago, it's still not doing much to impress me due to a scattershot of bugs (things like NPCs persisting before or after scenes and doors you can walk in and get stuck) and ugly graphics (which I guess fit Doom, which is a pretty ugly game). The inclusion of custom menus and a skill system are intriguing, but I ran in to a game ending bug before I could do much and my knife was doing more damage than my rifle, so I can't say its successes outweigh the game's multitude of problems.

Perhaps the biggest issue with Doom here is that it's a clearly unfinished product that shouldn't have been made public. The author was probably too excited about sharing the game and didn't make sure it was a smooth, enjoyable experience before doing that. I can understand being gungho and wanting to make an immediate impression, but discretion is the better part of valor here. It especially hurts when a game has as much promise as this one shows in places. If the author is looking for feedback, it might be better to contact testers directly. When the game is released in this state, it dissuades people from playing it in the future who otherwise might have once they have a bad experience.

Leaderboard
1. Megaman Sprite Game
2. Slimeomancy
3. Zero: Secret Pasts Collide
4. Dungeon Cards
5. Okedoke
6. Batman & Robin
7. Carcere Vicis
8. The Pumpkin Warriors
9. t4r4d1ddl3
10. Dragons
11. Doom Tactics
12. Graffiti Goose
13. Mr. Triangle's Adventure
14. Stand
15. Orange Monday
16. The Location
17. pH
18. Iron Galaxy
19. Munch-Meow
20. table
21. Elephants Most Wanted
22. Poot-Poot Rocket
23. Tetsuedo Demo
24. Rogue Demo
25. Fart
My website, the home of Motrya:
http://www.jshgaming.com
Liquid Metal Slime
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 PostWed Jan 21, 2015 4:09 am
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Samanthuel's Lovely Home

Samanthuel's Lovely Home isn't really a game. It's a showcase for some great art, a look in to the creator's life and philosophy (or perhaps just an idealistic portrayal of it) and could perhaps be something created as a mild therapy session for the creator. There's nothing subversive about it; it's kind of like a greeting card. Other reviews have focused on the transgender social politics presented here, but I really don't think that the game is trying to make a statement. It's just a cute little exhibition about a person who loves the way she lives.

Of course, this also means I can't really say it's a quality game since it isn't one. There's nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is. At least it was beautiful to look at. I'd love to see a full game made with this kind of art, and since the same creator made Megaman Sprite game, I think she could pull something memorable off.

Leaderboard
1. Megaman Sprite Game
2. Slimeomancy
3. Zero: Secret Pasts Collide
4. Dungeon Cards
5. Samanthuel's Lovely Home
6. Okedoke
7. Batman & Robin
8. Carcere Vicis
9. The Pumpkin Warriors
10. t4r4d1ddl3
11. Dragons
12. Doom Tactics
13. Graffiti Goose
14. Mr. Triangle's Adventure
15. Stand
16. Orange Monday
17. The Location
18. pH
19. Iron Galaxy
20. Munch-Meow
21. table
22. Elephants Most Wanted
23. Poot-Poot Rocket
24. Tetsuedo Demo
25. Rogue Demo
26. Fart
My website, the home of Motrya:
http://www.jshgaming.com
Liquid Metal Slime
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 PostWed Jan 21, 2015 4:35 am
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JSH357 wrote:
Dragons

Now that high-quality music is possible to include in OHR games, new challenges have arisen for developers using the engine. Music placement is an art, almost as much so as music composition. It's impressive how much an unfitting soundtrack can bring a game down. Dragons suffers from this, and it's a real shame since from what I can tell all of the music in the game was original. A fantasy RPG can have a pretty wide range of sounds that work, but the entire score to Dragons is some kind of new agey electronica that belongs in something else entirely. It isn't the worst music I've ever heard, granted, but when you're playing as a bunch of tiny sprites dealing damage to goblins and rats, you aren't thinking of grinding at the club or lazing around in an Apple store reading post-modern fiction.


I think this is a classic case of personal taste governing the review because I actually felt the dead opposite about the music as you do. I'll talk more about it once I get around to reviewing it (I plan to at least review the Heart of the OHR entries -- official and unofficial -- for this review thread), but I think the music is what keeps me wanting more from this game.

If it had used music that "fits," as in, satisfies the mood we've been programmed to like with this kind of game, I think it would've fallen off the map, at least for me. I actually want to upvote this game for risking something different and changing my idea of what works stylistically for this kind of game, much like how singing a bunch of pop 70s songs made A Knight's Tale (that Heath Ledger movie) memorable. Honestly, the fact that the score isn't a series of typical fantasy or medieval tracks is what makes it stand out of the crowd for me.

Personally, I think this is the best original score of 2014...or an extremely close second to Mr. Triangle's Adventure's soundtrack.

Actually, I think that'll work toward my review of the game. ;) But I'll say more about it soon.
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Slime Knight
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 PostWed Jan 21, 2015 9:14 pm
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@JSH357 thanks for the review..but did you read the game's discription? I wrote that I've been working on original music for some time now, and that this game is an alpha, and NOT the final product. I mean critism is good but only if the writer has the most important information.
Liquid Metal Slime
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 PostWed Jan 21, 2015 10:01 pm
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That's fine, and good luck, but I can only evaluate the game that exists. If you wanted criticism withheld, you shouldn't have released the game in its current state. I am holding every game here to the same standard.

And no, I did not read the description of any of the games. You shouldn't expect every player to do so, really. I downloaded all of the games in bulk for the contest.
My website, the home of Motrya:
http://www.jshgaming.com
Liquid Metal King Slime
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 PostWed Jan 21, 2015 11:09 pm
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I wrote a big long post, then re-read it, then re read some reviews here, and then deleted my first post.

I have nothing to add to this conversation at this moment, just wanted to leave this hear in case anybody read what I posted and was confused by its disappearance.

Keep making games everybody, keep writing reviews everybody!

(Unless that game is Orange Monday II, in which case STOP!)
Liquid Metal Slime
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 PostThu Jan 22, 2015 1:12 am
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James Doppler's Epic Sci-Fi Fantasy Quest of Space Time Adventure for the Mind

James Doppler's Epic is a stoner comedy RPG, and as such you should take it in as one. There's some humor in these things that rubs me the wrong way, but it's appropriate for the subject matter of the game. In this fifteen minute demo, you help a wizard make some drugs, buy some pain meds for a woman you wear out, and are about to fight a Juggalo when the demo ends.

The writing in the game is mostly strong at what it's aiming for. There are few grammatical mistakes, and my only real complaint is that the text boxes are too long and sometimes contain multiple characters' dialogue. In terms of presentation, while the graphics are pretty mediocre, they fit the style well enough and the music is basically perfect. I think that if the battles went by a little bit faster and the maps were less huge, the game would flow from comedy scene to comedy scene with better pacing.

With so little content to giggle at, there's not much more that can be said. I enjoyed what I played of this game, but it has some work to go before it's a complete story. I'd would personally shy away from some of the misogynistic humor, though it's not entirely out of place here. In the fifteen minutes this game lasted, I had a better impression of its characters and where the plot was going than in any other game I've reviewed for this contest so far. Good writing can elevate even a dumb thing like this.

Leaderboard
1. Megaman Sprite Game
2. Slimeomancy
3. Zero: Secret Pasts Collide
4. Dungeon Cards
5. Samanthuel's Lovely Home
6. Okedoke
7. James Doppler's Epic Sci-Fi Fantasy Quest of Space Time Adventure for the Mind
8. Batman & Robin
9. Carcere Vicis
10. The Pumpkin Warriors
11. t4r4d1ddl3
12. Dragons
13. Doom Tactics
14. Graffiti Goose
15. Mr. Triangle's Adventure
16. Stand
17. Orange Monday
18. The Location
19. pH
20. Iron Galaxy
21. Munch-Meow
22. table
23. Elephants Most Wanted
24. Poot-Poot Rocket
25. Tetsuedo Demo
26. Rogue Demo
27. Fart
My website, the home of Motrya:
http://www.jshgaming.com
Metal King Slime
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 PostThu Jan 22, 2015 2:18 am
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Bob the Hamster wrote:
I wrote a big long post, then re-read it, then re read some reviews here, and then deleted my first post.

I have nothing to add to this conversation at this moment, just wanted to leave this hear in case anybody read what I posted and was confused by its disappearance.

Keep making games everybody, keep writing reviews everybody!

(Unless that game is Orange Monday II, in which case STOP!)


I am so curious about what I missed. This is the worst kind of mystery!
Metal King Slime
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 PostThu Jan 22, 2015 8:15 am
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Batman and Robin, reviewed! You're welcome, citizens!

WAY more likable than Joker Mode led me to believe it would be! Goes totally off the rails at the end, but maybe that was my fault. I'm gonna call it my fault! Great to see a game with nice touches, could've used more polish.

EDIT:

table... or was it stand? table, I think it is... is reviewed! Hard to review these horror things. Remind me to make a rule for next year's Halloween contest that you have to exclude yourself from reviewing.
Metal Slime
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 PostSat Jan 24, 2015 11:01 pm
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ohrbingo.png
no bingo yet, maybe. might have to rethink some of the earlier games
I enjoyed reading and catching up on the reviews I missed.

Looking through ohr-time has given me lots to reflect on. Let's question what we all take for granted some more.

---

Mr. Triangles's Adventure

First thing I see is 'DONATE' on the menu, and it says to press B to go back. Pressing B does nothing. Opening sequence auto-advances text, ends abruptly on a text box without letting the player know it's time to advance text. INSIGHT: you know in modern games how you see auto-advancing text as sub-titles to accompany voice acting? Do you ever see text boxes auto advance ever, outside of that use? And if so, do you enjoy it?

I understand the author and game series has a history here, but it's all a passing curiosity to me, so I won't hold any of it against this game. So... what exactly is this game?

Some artists hate to hear there are formulas to these things, and if it helps, think of it in terms of keeping your audience's interest by answering their questions or leading them on in curiosity to those answers.

Main character? Talking red triangle. How? Why? Bad guy leaves a letter claiming the world claims him as the planet's hero. What??

Setting? Triangle man lives in a house, onion squad attacks him, wandering ape helps out and tags along. Why??

Gameplay? Classic jRPG, fight random monsters for exp and items, explore empty maps, enjoy a story to give it all weight and meaning. What monsters? Veggies. Why? Convoluted scheme or bad story writing? Hard to tell. Game seems to have game stuff to it: interesting design packed with effort or poor design with token effort?

What's the appeal? I know it sounds harsh, but it's important and a real concern. Figuring that out happens in the idea-phase, else when making the game, it's a process of adding whims and slogging along making maps cause that's just what a game has. It's hard to enjoy a game when it's hard to know why it was made, or for who. Context saves all of this, i.e. if I was really into playing as abstract shapes and apes, and I thought it was fun to fight cartoon food, I could look past all of the game's shortcomings. Where or what is that audience?

Plot: have to seek the farmer--for reasons? Cornfield dungeon before the farm--cause it's a rpg? Is it meant to make fun of rpg conventions? Is it meant as a sincere effort for a throwback game that doesn't have to make sense?

What is this game?

Music is great. So it has that going for it.

If all the questions are answered later on and it all combines into one epic twist and revelation of a genius rpg story--well, no. Because if it did, it'd have sense enough to let the player know from the beginning that it's that smart and worth playing through. INSIGHT: has any ohr developer ever changed the first hour of their game when given feedback that people have a hard time wanting to play through it? Do they care to figure out why, or prefer to dismiss it as people not understanding their grand vision and genius? No amount of padding can hide this. Don't treat people like they're too stupid to know, especially other lazy ohr developers.
Metal Slime
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 PostSun Jan 25, 2015 2:34 am
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ohrbingo.png
please correct me if i'm wrong
Untitled-2.png
figure A
Troll Over

The music is great. From a royalty free site, worth checking out.

FIGURE A: Quick color palette lesson.

Less saturated colors used to good effect on the left (Troll Over), heavy-sat on the right (Triangle). Compare grass tiles--notice how less is more if you want to do it lazy. Notice on the left how the trees and objects in the foreground have sat/stronger colors, while the background/floor has less-sat/muted ones so the sprites 'pop'. On the right, well... the ability to compose a pleasing picture is more than having skill with character linework.

---

The game itself. Never given a strong reason to play. I like the twist that I'm playing as a troll and have a naked human companion, but what exactly is done with it? After that initial setup, it's wander aimlessly through the forest time.

This isn't the 80's when computer games were new and it was always cool just to see a new one in action. It gives it an appleII era vibe, shareware dos. Look! I can move a character around and fight things! That doesn't really work like it used to it. Expectations have been changed. I need a better hook, some kind of meat on my plate.

It's things like this: you find some goblins, and they fight you. Next screen, you find some goblins, and they know you and chat. One teams up to follow you.

I think Spoonweaver is on the threshold of leveling up. His work shows competence, a little heart, a little style. What I'd like to see is if he'd sit down and focus on one idea and really develop it into a full-feeling fleshed out game, rather than these small contest game feeling one-shot 'trying out a little idea' things.

Learn how to make games that you can play on a web browser, and put these up with the thousands already littering the web. Or, maybe aim for something a little more. Marketing helps, can't deny it's required in some fashion, but believe me, Spoon. You'll find a better product will open doors the best marketing can't. All it takes is a little more sweat, a little more thought.

(minor detail, but trolls are about charging tolls, not goblins. do you think that little of your audience to do things like that?)
Metal Slime
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 PostMon Jan 26, 2015 8:46 pm
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okedoke0211.png
did i get a cameo? pretty cool and socially biting if so
okedoke02119.png
the level of social commentary
ohrbingo.png
Okedoke
When things get this dumb it's going to feel stupid talking about it. Forewarning.

See other reviews for design issues. Can add new items to that list, if asked. So, what's this game about? It's kind of amusing how it's fooled a couple reviewers into thinking it's a western because it's hard to get past the first map. Can't blame them.

I've been around the block in ohr town, and I understand to most that the amount of effort put into a work is worth points. I'm different here, because if the basic concept for a game is vapid and you make a chapter that's not exactly a fun experience, I don't care if you add fifty chapters to it and all the bells and whistles. It only makes the thing that much more bewildering.

Imagine James Doppler's pot game with 10 hours of gameplay added to it. More maps, more characters, more pop and commercial brand references, towns fleshed out with all the npcs and cutscenes you can cram into it. It would still be James Doppler's Epic Quest. Now take out any hint of black comedy or self-satire, have it played completely straight, and for good measure throw in farts, racial stereotypes, and real life politicians you think are big poopy heads, and stick to that level of humor and commentary. Now you have Okedoke.

I think the only person who could like this is someone who thinks comedy equals pop culture reference. Just so happens Pepsi Ranger has written several lengthy reviews. Please help me here:

Pepsi prefaces his thoughts with how "Political Correctness" is an obstacle to humor, meaning everything he dislikes about James Doppler's game is now okay here. With a magic wave of one's hand you can dismiss everything you don't like with 'socially challenged' mental gymnastics--the game's theme? He ends with "Anyone looking for a biting social commentary might actually find one here--if they aren't busy superficially panning the game for its surface ills or its insensitive treatment of obviously exaggerated stereotypes." And here's the rub cause this could go on for WALLS AND WALLS:

What is the social commentary?

What is the humor?


And I mean specifically. Honest questions. Really curious. Cause the answers to both seem like 'superficial or shallow' and 'oh look, a reference!' What's the purpose of senor death? McBoobs as a playable? What's the commentary of needing MOUNTAIN DEW as fuel for a van? Border patrol as power rangers? The Burger King and The Swarm thing? Cereal gangs? All the lame racial 'humor'?

Pepsi, I read your entire review (skipped the non review parts) and you mention redeeming commentary and qualities but never ever spell out what exactly that is. By all means, anyone. The mic's yours.
Metal Slime
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 PostMon Jan 26, 2015 11:46 pm
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I'll defend this shit.

Look, I'd never claim this game has a 'message'. It's just dumb, crass humor. I will claim some of it is actually kind of clever in a base, offensive sort of way. Making the emo kid enemy 'sacrifice' itself. Making the battle song literally "Beat it".

I wrote more on this before in my review back during the first HOTOHR. The main key is that the humor, and the world that it defines, is consistent and cohesive, without being particularly repetitive (although there are some aspects that wear thin). The specific political references nearer to the endgame were the only thing that felt actively embarrassing for me.

But this is all secondary to the fact that I enjoyed the majority of the gameplay. Battles were fun, out of battle exploration was MOSTLY fun, most of the balance was solid. Perhaps I got lucky getting the Dead guy before going to the Wall (I think? It's been years since I played).

Whatever, I'll admit I laughed playing this game, regardless of my enjoyment of the gameplay. Maybe what helps me is that it's just so ridiculously over the top that it doesn't feel offensive at all. Doesn't feel like social commentary either. Just feels like cheap laughs bundled into a cohesive package that happens to be my favorite type of 1-player game: sprawling exploratory RPG with a clear need for resource management. The specific 'reference'-based humor doesn't really do it for me, but it doesn't turn me away from the game either.
I am Srime
Liquid Metal Slime
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 PostTue Jan 27, 2015 7:08 am
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SDHawk wrote:
Pepsi: If I get through the hotohr games in time I'll vote.


By the way, you still have time. I've extended the voting period by another week. We still need numbers over there at that dying Heart of the OHR (it's not really dying, but the turnout is the worst it's ever been, so I want more votes).

Just to reiterate the rubric for voting for those who don't know how best to score:

10 - Flawless; impossible to improve
9 - Nearly flawless; might have a spelling mistake or two, but otherwise excellent
8 - Flawed, but you loved it anyway
7 - Not necessarily your favorite, but still pretty great
6 - Competent in some areas, but the flaws keep it from being great
5 - Neither awesome nor terrible. Just kinda fun. Its pros balance out the cons.
4 - Not terrible, but it definitely needs some work in key areas. Just entertaining enough to keep it from being truly bad.
3 - Needs to go back to the drawing board. Competent as a game, but severely flawed, with major areas in need of revision or polishing.
2 - Terrible game; ugly, unpolished, probably untested, lame story, etc. Probably should be rewritten from scratch.
1 - Incompetent on every level; so bad that it should be scrapped entirely and erased from the public's consciousness. The very mention of its name would incinerate entire nations.

Okay, now since Charbile is dragging me into his review of Okedoke:

Charbile wrote:
Okedoke
When things get this dumb it's going to feel stupid talking about it. Forewarning.


Inquiring minds want to know.

I'll try to keep this discussion civil, but I can't tell if you're sincerely asking legit questions or baiting a reaction. I'll do my best here to answer what you're asking and respond to your assertions.

Charbile wrote:
See other reviews for design issues. Can add new items to that list, if asked. So, what's this game about? It's kind of amusing how it's fooled a couple reviewers into thinking it's a western because it's hard to get past the first map. Can't blame them.

I've been around the block in ohr town, and I understand to most that the amount of effort put into a work is worth points. I'm different here, because if the basic concept for a game is vapid and you make a chapter that's not exactly a fun experience, I don't care if you add fifty chapters to it and all the bells and whistles. It only makes the thing that much more bewildering.

Imagine James Doppler's pot game with 10 hours of gameplay added to it. More maps, more characters, more pop and commercial brand references, towns fleshed out with all the npcs and cutscenes you can cram into it. It would still be James Doppler's Epic Quest. Now take out any hint of black comedy or self-satire, have it played completely straight, and for good measure throw in farts, racial stereotypes, and real life politicians you think are big poopy heads, and stick to that level of humor and commentary. Now you have Okedoke.


I get your logic. I agree with you that adding fifty chapters of the same vapid stuff to a game is not going to redeem it. This is especially true if it has nothing redeeming in the first place.

That's how I feel about James Doppler. That's not how I feel about Okedoke. Yes, like what msw188 says, the jokes can be crass. At times. But some jokes are just goofy, ridiculous, or cartoonish (Cap'n Crunch as a bloodthirsty pirate anyone?). Some jokes miss the mark entirely (pretty much everything about pot and the derogatory terms related to the characters' race). Yes, there are a good number that miss, but there are still plenty that hit (there's a girl you can temporarily recruit to your team who speaks only in Goat--ridiculous!). That alone makes Okedoke better than James Doppler. It also helps that Okedoke has a style all its own, clever map design in later stages (not so much in earlier stages, but they're never awful), and a world that feels alive, even if it's one you (and I mean you personally) don't like.

Charbile wrote:
I think the only person who could like this is someone who thinks comedy equals pop culture reference. Just so happens Pepsi Ranger has written several lengthy reviews. Please help me here:


Yes, I did write several lengthy reviews. That's what happens when your review doubles as a journal and (very loosely) part strategy guide. You need room to expand it. The chapter system made that easy. If you read just the reviewer feedback, then you missed the stuff that makes my feedback relevant. If you didn't read that part (because it's too long?), then why mention my name in this review? I don't see how it helps your argument. Or is it that you really are just asking questions for greater understanding?

Regarding pop culture jokes, as I write this response, I struggle to think of examples where I laughed at something other than a pop culture joke. I submit that most of the good humor in Okedoke is pop culture related. But why is that funny?

There's no simple way to answer that question. It goes back to my Cap'n Crunch reference. It's utterly absurd that Fnrrf would cast a cereal mascot to play a bloodthirsty pirate (who uses a spoon to dig out his victims' eyeballs). If you don't know Cap'n Crunch, it wouldn't be funny at all. But, if you grew up watching his commercials, it would be hard not to at least smile at this new take on a legend. Of course, some people may find the transformation of a beloved child's character into a murderous beast insulting, and I wouldn't expect any of them to find it funny. So, the best way I can answer that question is that a pop culture joke is funny depending on how it's used and how you receive it. It's kind of like someone testing to see whether you're ticklish. To address a later question you have, Mountain Dew as fuel isn't by itself funny, but the fact that the townspeople would rather stock a brand name soft drink in their isolated town than gas speaks volumes about who they are, about how ridiculous their situation is, and that to me makes them, and the situation that of all the places the Okedoke crew could break down, they end up in the one place that prioritizes Mountain Dew over gas, funny.

Charbile wrote:
Pepsi prefaces his thoughts with how "Political Correctness" is an obstacle to humor, meaning everything he dislikes about James Doppler's game is now okay here. With a magic wave of one's hand you can dismiss everything you don't like with 'socially challenged' mental gymnastics--the game's theme? He ends with "Anyone looking for a biting social commentary might actually find one here--if they aren't busy superficially panning the game for its surface ills or its insensitive treatment of obviously exaggerated stereotypes." And here's the rub cause this could go on for WALLS AND WALLS:


With all due respect, your review of Okedoke is now a review of my review of Okedoke (and partly of James Doppler--a completely different game that you've already reviewed), which is fine for what it is, but terrible for this thread. I hope this doesn't count toward your overall review count. Please give FnrrfYgmSchnish a proper review of Okedoke, involving things like...

Charbile wrote:
See other reviews for design issues. Can add new items to that list, if asked.


But to address your comment anyway, political correctness shields against sensitive subject matter, not disgusting subject matter. The real question might be why I find James Doppler disgusting (and offensive) and Okedoke a target of political correctness. Simply put, Okedoke is placed in the sniper scope because the labels that the villains give the heroes are offensive and ridiculous, and even though the offensive jokes are not funny in of themselves, they are delivered by villains (who shouldn't speak with roses in their mouths...unless their name is President Snow) in a ridiculous environment (where the Burger King has its own kingdom) which can be humorous if you're not the kind of person who gets bent out of shape over a label given to a video game character by its villains. True, the offensive humor in Okedoke is actually not that humorous, but I still stand by what I said about political correctness. My fallback will always be There's Something About Mary and My Cousin Vinny. Tell me which politically correct jokes are funny and which politically incorrect jokes are not.

It stops being funny when you do it to insult (which is based on ill-intent, which I don't think applies to Okedoke or its author). It also stops being funny when it was never funny in the first place (again, when it's designed to shock or insult).

I don't remember exactly what funny thing political correctness tries to shoot down in Okedoke (if there was one), but as a whole, I feel political correctness harms Okedoke's reputation because it's the only thing players focus on amid the wide diversity of topics it addresses, and they all think it's a crap game for going there. Graphics, gameplay, puzzles, style, and so on mean nothing because the villains calls the heroes a nasty name. That's political correctness killing Okedoke. I get that it presses sensitive buttons, and maybe it should, but so does the Oscar-winning movie American Beauty. Stop tanking a game based on one element you don't agree with. Even if that one thing ruins your whole experience, it doesn't change the way the game is drawn or laid out. Tank it because you hate everything about it. Kind of like how I feel about James Doppler.

I have a feeling I'm missing an important point here, but it's late and I still have a paper to review before bed, so I have to move on.

Now, to continue on the James Doppler comparison. I believe you honestly want to know why I see both games differently, even if you don't. I'll first say that msw188 hits the nail of a lot of my reasoning on the head. Example:

msw188 wrote:
Making the emo kid enemy 'sacrifice' itself. Making the battle song literally "Beat it".


James Doppler never gets this clever. Who bases an entire country on the Burger King name? Yeah, it's pop culture. But more importantly, it's clever use of pop culture. Okedoke actually changes direction and tone (not a positive for most games, but surprisingly refreshing for Okedoke) and creates a traditional fantasy RPG out of the Burger Kingdom. And he's not that crass about it. He does make a commentary about teenage girls and their phones, but it's just another thing you can either snipe at if you're sensitive to jokes about teenage girls and cellphones, or just enjoy because you're playing in a world that could never exist in real life so just run with it.

I'd argue that it also comes down to personal taste. I hate raunchy humor. Okedoke has its bathroom jokes, which get old quickly, I'll admit, but they're never outright disgusting. James Doppler gets disgusting. I don't laugh at disgusting. Okedoke has references to pot but doesn't make it the center of its comedy--I'm not sure if they even are jokes or just character traits to make NPCs different. James Doppler tries to get its biggest laugh out of a wizard zoning out on mushrooms. Really? I'm supposed to laugh at that? Okedoke blends all the jokes, pop culture references, etc. into crafting a world with personality. James Doppler can, as you suggest, be traded with regular characters with regular problems and with regular RPG quest needs and the world wouldn't know the difference. About racism: James Doppler doesn't go there (not that I remember anyway), but it does make some awful references to women, which is no better. I'm not gonna argue which is the worst of the two because it comes down to your outlook and your security in who you are. I don't think either is appropriate, but I find less offense in things that aren't meant to injure or disrespect. I think Okedoke was trying to make a ridiculous game, not an offensive one. Why? Just look at the villains. Some of the greatest caricatures of villainy are those who look like idiots when they cross the line. That basically describe's Okedoke's villains in a nutshell. Watch Blazing Saddles (a comedy classic) if you really want to see this in action. James Doppler has no villains. His characters (read: heroes) are just foul-mouthed douchebags that make me want to shower after listening to them. To make one a Gandalfian wizard is just another way to miss the target on comedy.

I was gonna save this for my own review of James Doppler, but I don't feel like my answer to your challenge is complete without this last point:

In Tropic Thunder, Robert Downey, Jr. explains why Tom Hanks wins an Oscar for Forrest Gump, but Ben Stiller (as Tugg Speedman) doesn't even get nominated for Simple Jack. Because his example is also a sensitive topic, I'm gonna refrain from quoting what he says, but the general idea is that you have to pull back a little and allow in some charm to your character if you want to make it memorable in a good way. Okedoke has charm, even amid the crap. James Doppler doesn't even try. To borrow loosely from Tropic Thunder, James Doppler goes full slimehead.

That's why I find Okedoke fun and James Doppler a stain on artistic expression and humanity.

Now, if James Doppler isn't supposed to be funny and we've all completely misrepresented the drama that it strives to be, then I apologize for my comments about it. But it's still a crappy game, and I still hate it.

Charbile wrote:
What is the social commentary?

What is the humor?


Play the game again, from start to finish. Then put on your college thinking cap. Seriously, you're asking too large a question. Compare the game to what you see around you in real life to understand the social commentary. Here's a hint: What things do we blow so far out of proportion to the point that it makes us look petty? How do we spend our time? What do we spend our money on? How do we view our politics? Keep going down this train of thought and then answer your own questions if you want to know the answer to this.

Regarding the humor: I can't teach funny. Sorry. You either find something funny or you don't. (And I expect you to know humor, because you're one of the funniest people on here when you make games. I mean that as a compliment. Sleepover was amazing and had plenty of funny moments. Same for that weird pony game you made. Hilarious.)

Actually, no, I'll give you this one. Your sense of humor may be higher brow than what either of these games offer. I laugh at anything funny that isn't disgusting or insulting to my IQ--which Okedoke never does, but James Doppler does incessantly. But even if that's the case, I can't explain what's funny about low-brow humor. A lot of it isn't, honestly. I just think Okedoke has moments where it rises above the pot(ty) humor whereas James Doppler swims in the toilet.

Charbile wrote:
And I mean specifically. Honest questions. Really curious. Cause the answers to both seem like 'superficial or shallow' and 'oh look, a reference!' What's the purpose of senor death? McBoobs as a playable? What's the commentary of needing MOUNTAIN DEW as fuel for a van? Border patrol as power rangers? The Burger King and The Swarm thing? Cereal gangs? All the lame racial 'humor'?


Now you're just assuming that everything is supposed to be funny. Like I said further up the post, some of it is just about building a personality for El Garbanzo's world. The Naked Gun movies were pants-peeing hilarious, but there's nothing funny about casting an older detective as your lead, at least not on its own. The fact that he's a straight-shooter is what allows everything else to be funny around him. Give it enough time to sink in and soon you realize he's funny because he's the straight-shooter.

(I know that's an old reference, but if you haven't seen at least the first movie, stop reading this crap and go watch it. One of the funniest movies in a generation.)

Charbile wrote:
Pepsi, I read your entire review (skipped the non review parts) and you mention redeeming commentary and qualities but never ever spell out what exactly that is. By all means, anyone. The mic's yours.


I hope my response sheds some light. If not, then ask more specific questions. I can't answer broad questions with anything particularly helpful.

I guess that's it. Hopefully the movie references didn't go too off the rails. I'm really trying to answer this post as quickly as I can, so some of my logic may not line up entirely the way I hope, and some of my points may be posted in the wrong place. I may have to post some revisions once I look at this again with fresh eyes. But for now, I hope this answers your questions.
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