Ramble Planet was simply an example. The fact that its latest version was released before June 1st makes it a moot argument. But if it were released within the window, and if Willy wanted to enter (and I acknowledge that he hasn't stated any intention to enter it in the first place), I'd have to call it up for vote like I'm doing with t4r4d1ddl3. The point about t4r4d1ddl3 is more relevant because 1.) it did surface during the window, 2.) it is, as TMC claims, truer to the original heart of the OHR than most anything released these days (even if it calls into question what constitutes as an OHR RPG), and 3.) t4r4d1ddl3's author kinda just burst on the scene and almost as quickly disappeared, and may not actually know about Heart of the OHR (and as a consequence, probably doesn't care whether his game is added or not).Spoonweaver wrote:Here's what I think about t4r4d1ddl3, and ramble planet too. The developers have shown no interest in entering the contest so I feel like both cases are moot. Now I'm sure we could debate what makes an rpg an rpg in extreme detail. For example, is the new game Destiny an rpg? Is Zelda an RPG? Is Pokemon an rpg? These are of course rhetorical questions.
I agree that intention matters. Authors can decline to have their games included on the list if they want. One of 2012's stronger performers had a split development team (one wanted the game on the list, the other didn't). However, when it comes to Heart of the OHR, a contest that doesn't actually harm your intentions for the game as far as I can tell, I fall in the camp that it's better to ask for forgiveness than for permission, and if you release a game that fits the guidelines within the window of the contest and you don't object to it being entered, and then you disappear, then I'll probably enter it for you. Granted, I will ask you first if you are around. But I also have to think your game fits the guidelines before I'll do any of that. In the case of t4r4d1ddl3, if the community thinks it should be included, and if its author doesn't object, then I'll include it.
I think we deal with games on a case by case basis already--it's what we're doing with t4r4d1ddl3, and it's what we did with a few other titles in the past (some win the argument, some don't).Spoonweaver wrote:What I'm trying to say is that the definition of RPG is a bit loose. So some sort of rules need to be set. I think at the very least, if a game is at all in question of being an rpg, then a game's developer needs to indicate that the game is an rpg in some way. If then a game is claimed to be an rpg and people disagree with that claim, then we could deal with these games on a game to game bases.
I don't have a problem with Zelda 2 type games or games like Rygar where you gain EXP as you battle, in theory. But there is a thin line we have to address when you bring up that question: I know the definition seems to shift like a pulsing organism whenever we talk about the contest's intention, but the Heart of the OHR is supposed to celebrate (among other things) the intention that James had for the engine when he began working on it so long ago. (If you're wondering what that intention is, play Wandering Hamster again.) It's the reason why I think TMC's argument about t4r4d1ddl3 is fair. But the contest is also supposed to celebrate RPGs and whatever we classify as an RPG, as opposed to the make anything and release anything nature of other contests we have around here. So, my official answer is to let the community decide if it should be included. I won't say no. But I won't say yes. Just release it if you're ready, and we'll add it if we agree it fits. If you're not ready, then release it when you are.kylecrack wrote:EDIT: Also, about the no sidescrollers thing, does that mean Stand is ineligible for the contest? It doesn't have any platforming and it's a definite RPG, but it is a sidescroller.
I don't know who Gary Gygax is. My life is fine.Taco Bot wrote:To put it in perspective, Gary Gygax (if you are on a RPG forum, and you don't know who Gary Gygax is, I suggest you reconsider some life decisions) had this to say about role playing games:
The problem with including paradox into this discussion is that you essentially have no solution. It's a point not worth bringing up. This isn't Game Philosophy 101. It's a discussion whether or not a certain game should be added to the Heart of the OHR. We can be subjective here. It's okay. Do we accept t4r4d1ddl3 (and games like it) because it exemplifies the engine in its purest form (the best argument made for it, in my opinion), or do we rule it ineligible because it doesn't display a true sense of character growth (by player action, not just by story--that's yet another discussion that doesn't need to come up in this particular argument)? If the answer is going to leave us scratching our heads, then it's not a very good answer.Taco Bot wrote:Now, I interpret that two ways. The first way I see it, nearly every game on this site is an RPG (excepting the Giz's text editors). Since the point of them is to imagine yourself in those places, living out those events, being those people. The second way I see it, NONE of these games are RPGs. Look at this part: "The essence of a role-playing game is that it is a group, cooperative experience"
Unfortunately, Slime Salad doesn't have game tagging yet.Taco Bot wrote:Any game that is not SPECIFICALLY labeled as NOT an RPG qualifies for the HotOHR.
More or less, yeah. It should still focus largely on using the OHR in the purpose it was designed for, but yeah. Ultimately, it should focus on bringing a character through a change based on player interaction.Willy Elektrix wrote:I think Pepsi Ranger's intent in this contest is fairly clear. The hero in an RPG most typically advances in power throughout the game. This could be through acquiring items (i.e. Zelda or Metroid) or statistical growth (i.e. Final Fantasy).
Technically, that would also include Bloodlust.Willy Elektrix wrote:The real question is: What if Bloodlust was submitted?
Willy Elektrix wrote:Don't your stats decrease as you fight battles? The mind boggles.
This debate is decreasing my stats by the minute.
I'm beginning to think that the question of what's considered an RPG will always be left up for interpretation, since we seem to return to this question every HotOHR, so maybe we'll just accept interpretation as one of the rules for eligibility. Seems to be the easiest path.
Spoonweaver wrote:Although the definition for the RPG genre is vague it's not completely without boundaries.
I think the rules are pretty lax as is. Most contests won't even put the rules up for debate. Most contests won't allow for the community to vote on changes. Most contests are ruled entirely by their creators. No other contest will allow you such a huge head start or reward you for entering a game you've entered elsewhere three years ago. I'm not sure how to make things looser here. :pTaco Bot wrote:That is absolutely true, but I still think HotOHR needs to have some laxer rules.
But I admit that you've got my curiosity. What do you think it needs to be looser about? What would you rather see happen here? I'm always open to suggestions for improving the contest. It was never meant to be complicated, but sometimes the things I develop end up becoming complicated. Happens with everything. Play any of my games if you want to see complication of a simple idea in action.
First off, I've wanted you to enter the Heart of the OHR since 2010, and you still haven't done so. One day, Nathan. One day.Nathan Karr wrote:Gah, I've just spent two full weeks in a row procrastinating instead of working on my game.
I really want to make this thing, but I don't want to force myself into working on it when I'm not into the spirit of the thing; that's killed projects of mine for me before, both ones more simple and ones more ambitious than this one.
Secondly, Stephen King would slap you for admitting that. You're not supposed to wait for inspiration. You're supposed to draw, write, or do whatever creative thing you do regardless of how "in the mood" you are. It's not just fun, it's work, and work doesn't wait for inspiration. You can always revise things later if it sucks. (Just because it sucks today doesn't mean it'll continue to suck tomorrow--that's the point of revision.) The one currency you can never make back is time. If you wait for inspiration to strike, you'll likely never finish anything. Sometimes inspiration comes because something you slogged through awakens an idea. Happens to me all the time.
Let that be a lesson to all you procrastinators (whether you're procrastinating on OHR or anything really). The time you lose waiting for inspiration cannot be replaced. So don't waste it on procrastination, and don't waste it waiting for the perfect conditions to strike. What planet are you living on anyway, where conditions are perfect? :p
I wanted to get to a really good stopping spot before turning it in.
