The "I'm writing a book" thread

Talk about things that are not making games here. But you should also make games!

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BennyJackdaw
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Post by BennyJackdaw »

The book stars a unique cast of characters. The protagonist of the book is a young Prehensile-tailed Hedgepine who wants to become a crime fighter to prove to his father and though is that bullied him that he is strong. He is a little arrogant, but the book tries to develop him into being less arrogant, and he probably has to be nice to his friends, but has low tolerance for his enemies. He is a devoted follower of Sumotora: a lifestyle that involves a lot of strength training and and a Diet loaded with fats and protein to make yourself as big and strong as possible. Without going into spoiler territory, he was inspired by a famous sumo wrestler: a large Alippo named Maya, by watching her on television when he was young.

He has a couple of friends: a small weasel-like Ermonkey named Casey and his best friend Buzz the Rabeaver, the latter of which also practices Sumotora. He ends up joining a hero group, also made up of Sumotorans, including Maya herself. Their Rivals are a group of sleek and agile creatures that call themselves the Range Rangers, with Hunter the Lapizard and Sun the Bronturga/Bronturtle, being important characters. There is also a main antagonist of the franchise: a crime lordess named Jenny Sequa.

The length of my book is a big concern of mine, as I feel like it's too long for teen fiction book, being over 25 chapters long. I often feel like a lot of the action chapters might be filler-ish, but I try to make up for that by developing the characters, for example by showing you Hunter's past with two of the members of the protagonists hero group. Also, I do realize some of the writing in my book feels forced. For example, Ricky works at a place that has two bosses, the second of which heads when people are in the break room when he wants to use it. I plan on changing that second boss into a good friend of the first boss who wants the break room to work on an art project of his, or that is what he says.

Right now, the book is currently in a finished rough draft state. I'm still looking for at least one beta reader who can just stick with the entire book from beginning to end, but I'm worried the size of the book is such a big ischua, and I want help figuring out where I can cut things down.


Also, I showed a preview of another manuscript I wrote to a forum years ago, and they heavily criticized the fact that the characters in that manuscript were not human. Frankly, the characters are not human because I don't want them to be human. Part of it is because I like characters that are just outside the box. I always hate seeing media that has generic human protagonist, but has such wacky and creative non-human villains, and I believe that heroes should be just as unique and creative as the villains. That is only one reason I don't like human protagonists, though. I don't feel comfortable going further.
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Post by Bob the Hamster »

Since the characters are animals, you will probably want to search for readers in special interest forums where people are already interested in stories with non-human characters.

Another thing that might help is if you can ask people for feedback on just the first one or two chapters. Since that is a smaller ask, it will probably be a lot easier to find readers willing to do it.

Then, hopefully some of them will want to keep reading.

I think Pepsi Ranger's feedback about how to decide what to keep and what to cut is useful. Learning to edit your own work, and focus on the parts of the story that are most important is a hard thing to learn, but it will be worth it.
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BennyJackdaw
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Post by BennyJackdaw »

Bob the Hamster wrote:Since the characters are animals, you will probably want to search for readers in special interest forums where people are already interested in stories with non-human characters.

Another thing that might help is if you can ask people for feedback on just the first one or two chapters. Since that is a smaller ask, it will probably be a lot easier to find readers willing to do it.

Then, hopefully some of them will want to keep reading.

I think Pepsi Ranger's feedback about how to decide what to keep and what to cut is useful. Learning to edit your own work, and focus on the parts of the story that are most important is a hard thing to learn, but it will be worth it.
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/35880617/

Now that you mention it, the first chapter of my book is available on my furaffinity page. It's in the link I provided.
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Pepsi Ranger
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Post by Pepsi Ranger »

BennyJackdaw wrote:The length of my book is a big concern of mine, as I feel like it's too long for teen fiction book, being over 25 chapters long. I often feel like a lot of the action chapters might be filler-ish, but I try to make up for that by developing the characters, for example by showing you Hunter's past with two of the members of the protagonists hero group.
The number of chapters is of less concern than the number of words (which should run about 70,000 if you're writing teen fiction). The key to writing a strong chapter, including 25 of them, is to make sure each one has its own five-beat structure or four-beat structure plus cliffhanger to keep the full story moving forward.

This structure being:

1. Inciting incident (or hook) that introduces the problem
2. Complication or the recognition of the conflict
3. Crisis or the dilemma of whether to act or retreat
4. Climax or the response to the conflict based on the decision
5. Resolution (or cliffhanger) or result of the action taken

Here's a great article by a former New York editor that explains this concept.

You also need to check that each scene is necessary to tell the main story, and that each one "turns," meaning it demonstrates a change, including polarity changes (where a scene that starts positive ends negative or vice versa, or ends in what's called a double-positive, or establishes itself as an informative chapter that does less to move the story forward but does more to help the reader understand an element that requires explanation for it to make sense).

The other thing you may want to consider is whether you have a series on your hands (it kind of sounds to me like you might). Typically you'll want to consider a series if you know you've got a story that exceeds one central goal or introduces too many characters out the gate (when it may be better to introduce them after the reader is well acquainted to the world you're establishing).

There are a number of ways to approach this, but the bottom line is that you should ask yourself how you would feel about this story if you'd paid $15 for the paperback and someone else's name was on it. You'll be able to assess your work more honestly if you take on this strategy.

Sometimes it's also better to compartmentalize your big story into smaller chunks if your big idea is too big for a single book.
BennyJackdaw wrote:Also, I showed a preview of another manuscript I wrote to a forum years ago, and they heavily criticized the fact that the characters in that manuscript were not human. Frankly, the characters are not human because I don't want them to be human.
Regarding non-human characters, that matters for most audiences but not all audiences. It also depends on how you treat the story. Watership Down and Animal Farm are classics for the way they treat their themes, not for the fact that they star critters and farm animals. It happens that the characters and their animal worlds support their respective themes well, but readers still gravitate toward the stories because the characters' personification works. And that's what you have to consider. Readers read what they can either identify with (humans) or aspire to be (heroes and superhumans). If your characters are identifiable or relatable, then whether they're humans or opossums won't matter as much as some people may say. But make no mistake that relating to animal characters is much harder to do than relating to other humans. Don't assume that it's an even swap. But it's not impossible to make this work. This is probably what your forum friends are telling you.

Consider this: The Lion King has no human characters, but it's one of the most successful animated movies of all time. Ask yourself what it does right.

Hint 1: Hero's Journey.
Hint 2: Hamlet.
Hint 3: Family struggles. And so on.
BennyJackdaw wrote:Also, I do realize some of the writing in my book feels forced.
Now, based on your first chapter, I'd say that you need to work on your hook. And the problems that appear in the first scene may also be indicative of the rest of the story and why you're not getting anyone to finish it (it often is, which is why agents know whether they want your manuscript after reading the first few lines). Your opening scene is a long-winded retelling of the opening scene of Batman (1989), complete with dull actions and on-the-nose or stilted dialogue that goes on for too long.

One way you can combat this is to practice writing in subtext, which is where a scene plays out externally one way but means something else beneath the surface. Of course, subtext isn't always necessary, so keep it in your back pocket. But make sure you learn how to do it. It will come in handy at times.

Also, don't let the genre or preferred reading audience be an excuse to lower your investment in the writing. Even if this is for young adults, you can still minimize the cartoonishness with better rounded character actions and dialogue. This also means considering what people (or animals with human traits) would actually say and do. Your characters, so far, sound juvenile and obvious. Based on the first few paragraphs, I can already tell I'm not interested in reading more. But this can be fixed.

Consider these two examples.

Example #1:

Bob and Fred were suddenly scared. A big creature appeared in front of them down the alley.

"Come on, Bob. We're able to see the superhero. We should get out of here before he sees us."


This action and line of dialogue are both unrealistic and obvious. They also summarize the conflict. It's similar to the kind of text you're writing in the opening scene, and it can stall or wreck the story. Consider what's more likely to play out in more nuanced fiction and what will immerse your reader into the scene better.

Example #2:

Fred the Raccoon backhanded Bob on the shoulder. Bob, still digging through the garbage and searching for the prize, shot his attention at Fred, the scowl and twittering whiskers on his face expressing his irritation at the interruption. His jaw opened, likely in rebuke to Fred's assault on his shoulder. But before Bob could say a word, Fred put his paw on Bob's mouth, drew a single claw across his own throat, then pointed down the trash-filled alley toward the hulking amber outline, blob of shadow, and glowing yellow eyes looming at the other end. Whatever they were looking at, it blocked the streetlights beyond.

"We should go," Fred whispered. "Now."


This example doesn't change the story, but it does change the reader's engagement and the characters' credibility to his actions and response, not to mention places the reader into the scene better (because there's action and emotion and normal dialogue happening).

Now, ask yourself which of the two examples you enjoy reading more. Why do you prefer one over the other (or do you)?

[spoiler]It's okay if you prefer the first example, but most readers will prefer the second, assuming there isn't a better third example available.[/spoiler]

This isn't to say that one example will definitely appeal to the reader while the other doesn't. You still have to write a scene situation that fulfills the audience member's interest. This is why considering the story's goal and each scene's goal is of vital importance, even more so than writing style.

The only time you need to summarize is if you need to boil down a lot of information into a single paragraph or dialogue (often to show transitions without zooming in on the boring stuff).

So, in short: Keep it simple. Don't overexplain. Put your characters in motion. Don't write bad or obvious dialogue. Write scenes that matter. Have a story idea worth telling. Now reverse the order of these instructions and get back to work on the revision.

If you need additional practice in developing a scene, you may want to consider doing some freewriting. I'm personally no fan of freewriting, but I do recognize its occasional merits, and you may be inspired by what freewriting can teach you if you take it to practice.

If you're still stuck, you should maybe consider reading some books on the topics of story structure and character and scene development (and even dialogue), but you can also check out some YouTube channels under the keyword "authortube." You'll learn a lot from each of them. This article points you to twelve of them, and I agree wholeheartedly with this list. I personally subscribe to numbers 7, 10, and 12, but I've seen plenty of entries from numbers 1 and 3 to validate their credibility, and number 2 is one of the more popular channels on the list and probably a good one for your particular genre. But really, you should check them all out to see which ones you like the most, and explore the "authortube" keyword to see if there are any other author/instructors that you like and can learn something valuable from.

Hope this all helps. Don't let it discourage or overwhelm you. Everything's a learning process, including and especially the projects that don't turn out as we hoped. Apply what you learn, bit by bit, and consider how it helps the bigger picture. Keep going, but don't be afraid to rethink how the story is told. Some ideas work. But not all of them. Learn the difference between fixing what's broken and starting over from the beginning. Consider why one choice may be better than the other. None of us here can tell you which is better for this story. But you know your goals for it, so you should be confident in your choice.

Last point to hit it all home: In 2010, I started adding a complete standalone opening narrative to my superhero epic because the author I referenced in an earlier post destroyed my premise in five minutes of me telling him the story. I'd spent three years developing it, and I was in the middle of the third book when I had this conversation. The difficult thing was that he was right. But I didn't scrap my material. I changed how it started. It's still not perfect, and I still need to break it down into smaller parts, but at least now I've got something that can work after a little more attention. And, to be clear, getting an extra book out of it is a good thing if readers like it. If you care about selling books, you can imagine why an extra book in a series readers like is beneficial. Sometimes you just need to take a step back and reevaluate the plan.

All right, that's good for now. Let us know if you still have questions.
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BennyJackdaw
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Post by BennyJackdaw »

I don't want to come off as close-minded, but I do have a few issues.



I haven't read a lot of those stories where the main characters are animals, but there is kind of a reason that they are anthropomorphic hybrids in my story. I believe making a protagonist should be exciting. Creating a protagonist that's just a bunny or just a cat kind of isn't good enough for me. I'm a person that just want to go above and beyond. Part of it is because I want to make good guys that most people would try to turn into villains. In a lot of media, it just feels like the villains are more awesome and more relatable. The villain can be almost anything, unlike the heroes which usually have no choice but to be human, and despite being a human myself, humans are actually the least relatable species for me for reasons I would rather not go into. I'm not a person who likes a story with unique and creative villains, but generic heroes. I'm a person that wants both to be cool and awesome, and that's why the characters in my book are these unusual hybrids, because I find those cool and relatable and making human characters I would like and find awesome is impossible because the simple fact that they are human makes them less likeable for me.

I do admit, it's pretty hard to fit these characters into their own little world. I feel like the current setting I have right now is a poor match. Right now, they pretty much just live in a human like world with a few key fantasy locations, and I feel like I could do better than that. So far, world-building is not a strong suit of mine. I feel like designing characters is currently what I'm best at. I'd like to think I'm decent at fleshing those characters out, as well. Maybe not perfect, but decent. World-building, without a doubt, is something I need to work on.

A lot of people have been telling me that my characters are immature. There's a big reason I'm trying to write teen fiction, because I'm trying to write to a young enough audience that is still able to appreciate these characters. I'm also not sure how it to make them more "mature" without completely neutering the characters. One of my characters is a dragon / Pig hybrid with limited knowledge in Magic. On the side, he is a preschool teacher, and when fighting crime, he likes to do things unconventionally and outside the box, partially because he likes to challenge himself. He's also kind of supposed to be inspired by the complexity addict, which is a type of villain archetype because, again, I like creating Heroes that people would usually design as villains because I tend to like villains a lot more than the heroes. Another character is this large bear who practices Muay Thai kickboxing to make up for someone he wronged, hoping one day he can protect him and fight by his side. He also loves to do this rap when he is fighting a bunch of mooks by himself because he is based off another villain archetype, the showman villain.

The thing is that getting rid of a lot of the "immature" aspects of these characters would be getting rid of things I like about the characters. Is it practical that the bear needs to rap? No, but it adds to why I like the character, and he's still smart enough to fight bad guys that attack him while he is rapping. Does the dragon Pig need to summon an elephant trunk on his face to defeat opponents when there is many more practical ways he could deal with bad guys? No, but it's whimsical and I like that about the character. I do have another character who kind of represents the Fashionista villain, and her methods are a little more practical, since she wears big sunglasses to make her face seem bigger and more intimidating, and she also where is gem-studded rings to make her punches more impactful, but even she is kind of a wacky character. And yet, I like that about these characters. I like that they are wacky. How could I make these characters more "mature" without getting rid of the wackiness?

Honestly, I do not feel like Lion King was a good example. The movie is kinda plagiarized. Not of Hamlet, but of Osamu Tekuza's Kimba the White Lion. There is a lot of original work that I feel could be referenced more.

I don't know about those two methods of writing a scene that you mentioned. The second one feels a little dragged out. This is kinda supposed to be a dream sequence, although I have been considering removing it since a lot of people are not a fan of the sequence, but I'm not sure what to replace that with. I was thinking maybe a short flashback, but I go into his backstory in a later chapter. Would it be a good idea to flashback to the struggles of the protagonist? Maybe go back and give you an idea of how he is how he is? Like, maybe make it a flashback of him being bullied. Would that be better?
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Post by Pepsi Ranger »

BennyJackdaw wrote:I haven't read a lot of those stories where the main characters are animals, but there is kind of a reason that they are anthropomorphic hybrids in my story. I believe making a protagonist should be exciting. Creating a protagonist that's just a bunny or just a cat kind of isn't good enough for me. I'm a person that just want to go above and beyond. Part of it is because I want to make good guys that most people would try to turn into villains. In a lot of media, it just feels like the villains are more awesome and more relatable. The villain can be almost anything, unlike the heroes which usually have no choice but to be human, and despite being a human myself, humans are actually the least relatable species for me for reasons I would rather not go into. I'm not a person who likes a story with unique and creative villains, but generic heroes. I'm a person that wants both to be cool and awesome, and that's why the characters in my book are these unusual hybrids, because I find those cool and relatable and making human characters I would like and find awesome is impossible because the simple fact that they are human makes them less likeable for me.
So, nothing you've said here is a bad thing. You're saying you want to create interesting heroes and villains. The good news is that readers also want to read interesting heroes and villains. The fact that you find villains more interesting than heroes is also a good thing because that's also what readers are interested in.

I'm nearly finished with Christopher Vogler's The Writer's Journey, but he makes an interesting point about The Shape of Water (a movie I've never seen and don't plan to, but I get his reason for writing about it, and I think it's relevant here), which can also apply to the MCU, Batman, and others: If the movie were made in the 1950s, then the bad guy would've been the hero.

The point he's making, and that other movies make (including the MCU's take on Thanos), is that a good villain believes he's the hero. So, the fact that you want to make the villains interesting is a good thing. You should.

Here's where the rest of the above may be of issue. If you're writing for yourself, then you should absolutely write the story and the characters that you want. If you love your story and you're its audience, then great. Keep doing it. But if you're writing for others, including beta readers that can't finish the book for whatever reason, then you have to ask yourself if your story (or more specifically, your approach to telling the story) is what they're looking for. It's really that simple. If you're baking a chicken pot pie for a vegetarian, don't be surprised if that vegetarian wants to eat something else. If you're baking a broccoli and cheese pie, you might have better success at getting a vegetarian to try it out.
BennyJackdaw wrote:I do admit, it's pretty hard to fit these characters into their own little world. I feel like the current setting I have right now is a poor match. Right now, they pretty much just live in a human like world with a few key fantasy locations, and I feel like I could do better than that. So far, world-building is not a strong suit of mine. I feel like designing characters is currently what I'm best at. I'd like to think I'm decent at fleshing those characters out, as well. Maybe not perfect, but decent. World-building, without a doubt, is something I need to work on.
I think world-building is tough for a lot of people. The trick here is to maintain consistency. It doesn't hurt to create a chart of locations you want to include and list anything you find interesting about that location. Then write down any element that it has in common with other locations, how one may link to the other, and so on. If you're world-building on the fly (something I tend to do with difficulty), then staying consistent will be much tougher. Put your world rules next to you as you write and you'll have an easier time installing it into the story. It'll also help you see the world from a bigger picture, so you can decide which settings actually work.

Going back to the sample I read, I didn't think the world-building was the problem. I was willing to accept raccoons committing a robbery in an urban environment and a superhero coming in to stop them. In fact, everything in your synopsis from the earlier post seems doable to me. The ideas are fine. It comes down to execution. It comes down to crafting the scene. Stories live and die by their scene execution.
BennyJackdaw wrote:A lot of people have been telling me that my characters are immature. There's a big reason I'm trying to write teen fiction, because I'm trying to write to a young enough audience that is still able to appreciate these characters.
Books like Harry Potter and The Hunger Games elevated teen fiction for most readers. If you want immature characters, you may need to lower the target reader age range a bit more. I'm thinking early teens (11-13).
BennyJackdaw wrote:I'm also not sure how it to make them more "mature" without completely neutering the characters. One of my characters is a dragon / Pig hybrid with limited knowledge in Magic. On the side, he is a preschool teacher, and when fighting crime, he likes to do things unconventionally and outside the box, partially because he likes to challenge himself. He's also kind of supposed to be inspired by the complexity addict, which is a type of villain archetype because, again, I like creating Heroes that people would usually design as villains because I tend to like villains a lot more than the heroes. Another character is this large bear who practices Muay Thai kickboxing to make up for someone he wronged, hoping one day he can protect him and fight by his side. He also loves to do this rap when he is fighting a bunch of mooks by himself because he is based off another villain archetype, the showman villain.

The thing is that getting rid of a lot of the "immature" aspects of these characters would be getting rid of things I like about the characters. Is it practical that the bear needs to rap? No, but it adds to why I like the character, and he's still smart enough to fight bad guys that attack him while he is rapping. Does the dragon Pig need to summon an elephant trunk on his face to defeat opponents when there is many more practical ways he could deal with bad guys? No, but it's whimsical and I like that about the character. I do have another character who kind of represents the Fashionista villain, and her methods are a little more practical, since she wears big sunglasses to make her face seem bigger and more intimidating, and she also where is gem-studded rings to make her punches more impactful, but even she is kind of a wacky character. And yet, I like that about these characters. I like that they are wacky. How could I make these characters more "mature" without getting rid of the wackiness?
Yeah, when I say it's immature, I'm not talking about anything you just described. All of that above is fine. It's actually interesting. And quirkiness is appropriate for all ages. I like quirky. I write quirky stuff. It's fun.

Here, let me show you what I'm talking about based on a sample from your first chapter (if you need me to edit this part out for any reason, let me know):
Nightfall casts its shadow on a small, busy city as a brilliant moon loomed above the sky. The shine from the moon was disturbed by whirling red lights and loud sirens. One could be sure a robbery was taking place. Sure enough, a band of crooks had just bolted out of a small bank, and the cops were right on their tail. Unfortunately, the theives were smart and nimble, traversing on foot places the cops couldn't reach by vehicle.
I'm pretty okay with this opening paragraph. Sets the scene. The last line, while "telling," still gets my interest. Sort of. Without knowing anything about the story, I'd assume the thieves had just gone down a narrow alley, since most vehicles wider than a motorbike won't be able to enter. Would I like a better idea where they've actually run to? Yeah. Do I need to know right now? I can wait a little longer.
See, these were not just thieves, but were sapient monsters. Two of them were a strange mix between a human, a raccoon and a monitor lizard, with a raccoon tail and fur covering most of there body, but scaly hands and feet, and scales below the eyes. There was one more thief among them: a tall monster who looked to be a cross between a deer and a lion, with a lion mane and feline facial features, but deer antlers, ears and a long mouth, and like the others, he was a biped. These creatures were known as Raccitors and Leers.
Do humans exist in this world? If so, are they the ones chasing the thieves? Does this also explain why the thieves are able to travel where the police can't?

Again, most of the description here is fine for what it is. If I had a recommendation for improvement, it would be to tell us who each character is (and what they look like) as you introduce them. I won't actually know what Randal or Gabriel looks like because you just gave me two character descriptions without attribution. Which one's the human raccoon monitor lizard? Which one is the deer lion?

The other question I have is how these creatures became such chimeras. Is this the nature of the world they live in? Were they products of a science experiment? Now, I don't actually need that answer at the start if their chimeric attributes is part of the story. But if combining a bunch of earth creatures into a singular species is just a trivial detail, no more unusual than an elf or an orc in a traditional fantasy novel, then I may prefer to have something *very brief* explaining to me who these creatures are at the world-building level (and I don't mean just giving me their creature names). It can be as simple as:

The inhabitants of Chimera City aren't humans. Not all of them, at least. Many of them are bipeds, like humans, but also furry, like some humans. They resemble upright animals, but not in the traditional sense. In Chimera City, the average resident is a Raccitor, or human raccoon hybrid with a touch of monitor lizard. Or, for those who see something different in the mirror, there's also the Leer, or deer lion. How they got this way isn't important. What's important is that some of them still commit robberies, like humans.

Randal, a Raccitor, is a robber. The lizard scales under his raccoon eyes in the shape of half a bandit's mask is nature's way of calling him out. The scales on his hands ensure he won't lose his grip on the loot he snatches. He may as well have been born to steal stuff. Gabriel, a leer, is also a robber. But he's less gifted at looking the part. His flowing mane and giant deer antlers make him better as Randal's bodyguard, assuming he wants that job, which he doesn't. Like Randal, he likes to steal stuff. His antlers make it easier for him to carry a bunch of necklaces without pockets. He's adapted.


You get the idea. Showing off attributes as they become important is a better way to brand the image into the reader's mind. Throwing it all out there at the start and expecting me to remember everything is harder on me. Tease out information when it becomes relevant. This is true about everything. Makes the experience better for me.
"Those stupid pigs make it too easy," the first Raccitor replied.

"Don't call them that, Randal," the second one replied. "They may be our adversaries, but we are above derogation. Show some more respect."

"Gabriel!" Randal whined to the Leer.

"Now is not the time for arguing over such a stupid topic, Rusty," Gabriel shouted. "Talking wastes energy."
This is about where I mentally checked out. The above is an example of on-the-nose dialogue. It's a form of telling. No reader wants to suffer through dialogue like this. Dialogue should include explanation only when one of the characters knows something the other doesn't, and when that thing the other character doesn't know is something that he needs to know. In this case, I can't tell if Randal knows if they're "above derogation" or that Rusty (who the heck is Rusty???) even realizes that "talking wastes energy," but I don't know why it matters if he does or doesn't. It seems like a waste of dialogue.
"What ev'," Rusty replied. "I just like to be a little bit polite."

"Shut up and follow," Randal scoffed. "If I know the city well enough, there is an alley that goes across town close to us. If we go down there, we will lose the fuzz."

"You better be correct," Gabriel growled.
I'd like this more if I thought that their talking created a sense of danger. As of now, they just sound like caricatures of old gangster movies. This is more in line with the "immaturity" I talk about. The only thing that's kind of interesting here is Rusty's response about being polite, but because it does nothing to raise the stakes of the scene, other than cause Gabriel's irritation, it doesn't add much to the character. Now, if Gabriel's irritation is the catalyst for everything to get all explode-y on them, then I'd see the point. But...
There was, infact, an alley close by that lead to the next street, but as the thieves entered the alley, they came across what looked like a wall at first. As they looked closer, they saw a huge cape leading up to a pitch black derby hat. It appeared to be a huge person, and his size was much greater than the three thieves.
The wrong turn is what's actually important here. Randal's decision to lead them into the alley is what needs to shine. Everything you're setting up prior leads us to this decision. Randal's arrogance is your conflict. That's where your character development should focus. Not the petty stuff. The petty stuff is filler.
"I was expecting you to show up right about now," the huge person said. "I am afraid you can"t go through here. There's a BIG monster blocking the way."
This is one of the few cases where on-the-nose dialogue works. Irony is always a good thing.
"Oh, good call Randal," Rusty retorted.

"What!? How was I supposed to know there would be a giant monster down here!?" Randal defended.

"Oh, for the..." Gabriel started. "Let's go down another alley! We are still ahead of the pigs."

"I am telling you guys to stop saying that," Rusty requested.
If their adrenaline is kicked in, then I doubt Rusty would still care about politeness. Unless Rusty's creature type feels no adrenaline. Then I might buy it. But if the other two characters are getting an adrenaline spike, then why doesn't Rusty have one? This is where your world-building could be stronger. Or your dialogue could stay on point.
As the thieves tried to escape, they heard fingers snap. The next thing they knew, a wall of electricity blocked their escape route. They looked back at the giant figure and saw a clawed arm raised above the derby hat. This suggested that the giant had done something.
Cut the last line. It's obvious.
"Nah ah ah," the giant started. "It does not work like that. You cannot decide you made a wrong turn, and then just leave. I'm afraid you have done some very bad things, and now you will have a challenge to attend to."
Dull and on-the-nose.
"If you don't get out of the way, then we just may do something even worse!" Gabriel shouted.
Immature and cliche and bad villainy. Caricature of the amateur bad guy.
"Calm down, Gabe," Rusty replied. "Let's just knock this guy out and be on our way. This guy has the entrance blocked, so if we beat him, we can still evade the cops."
How does Rusty suppose he'll knock out a giant? Does he have some physical advantage over the giant? At least I'm beginning to sense that Rusty is a chill dude no matter the situation (which is interesting). Makes me wonder why he gets so bent out of shape over name-calling.
"I regret to inform you, but you won't beat me," the giant replied. "You will gaze in awe at one of the most powerful creatures in the known universe."
Also arrogant. But I'm actually okay with this line. It shows something about the giant's personality, that maybe he's a narcissist. You can work with that.

Retrospective Note: I realize "the giant" is actually a daydreaming kid...now. But I didn't the first time I read this line. The first time I read this, I thought he was a bad cliche. So, even if a kid would talk this way (well, before the narcissism), I still don't know that he is a kid, so to me it sounds like ridiculous dialogue. But I think you can find a balance here. Talk like a kid, but don't talk on-the-nose. Maybe the giant can call them names. Really get under Rusty's skin. Then even Rusty's politeness can become an actual conflict.

See how that works?
"What a basket case!" Randal replied. The giant gave a hearty chuckle.

"We'll see about that," the giant said. "It is time you came face to face with the rather splendid Ricky Mason!"

The giant named Ricky clutched his cape as he turned to face the thieves before ripping his cape off. The cape caught his derby hat as Ricky tossed it aside. Finally did the thieves get a good look at this creature.

One giant prehensile tail and a back full of hard hedgehog quills adorned a furry beast. This creature, known as a hedgepossum, was a humanoid mix showing the soft fluffy belly and back of a hedgehog and the hands, feet, tail and face of a prehensile tailed porcupine.
I like the rest of this. It reveals the superhero character piece-by-piece. It gives me a chance to digest the information about him while also putting myself into the moment. I can also begin to sense the possibility that the giant is actually a wannabe, which I think is the premise of your story, so this part works in my opinion.

And that's really the key here. Reveal information as it becomes important in a way that feels natural for the story and the reading experience. Making your characters out of chimeras is not a problem. Setting your story in a back alley with three thieves and a superhero is not a problem. Telling me stuff I don't need to know is a problem. Making your unique characters into cliches is a problem.
Honestly, I do not feel like Lion King was a good example. The movie is kinda plagiarized. Not of Hamlet, but of Osamu Tekuza's Kimba the White Lion. There is a lot of original work that I feel could be referenced more.
It's a good example because audiences love it and watch it on repeat. You stated your issue is that none of your readers will finish your story. If you want readers to finish your story, then you should study the stories that readers and audiences love and identify why they love them. Then mimic that.

But, okay, I get that you want to keep your story more niche than that. So here's an example that hits closer to home: Darkwing Duck. Fantastic cartoon from the early '90s. If you don't know it, look it up. It's a lot like your story idea. But with ducks. And it was awesome. It also rips off Batman.

Yep, Batman.

Let's be clear, every story is a retelling of one of the seven universal stories. I'm pretty sure yours is the hero's journey, which is what most superhero stories are about. It's impossible to be entirely unique, and that's okay. Something in your story (and everyone's story) will resemble something about someone else's story. It can't be avoided. It's better to take the common ingredients and try to craft a unique recipe that people will enjoy than it is to throw a bunch of ingredients together that may or may not coalesce into a soup that no one can identify. Most people won't eat what they don't understand.
I don't know about those two methods of writing a scene that you mentioned. The second one feels a little dragged out. This is kinda supposed to be a dream sequence, although I have been considering removing it since a lot of people are not a fan of the sequence, but I'm not sure what to replace that with. I was thinking maybe a short flashback, but I go into his backstory in a later chapter. Would it be a good idea to flashback to the struggles of the protagonist? Maybe go back and give you an idea of how he is how he is? Like, maybe make it a flashback of him being bullied. Would that be better?
Most story experts will tell you to do none of the things you've suggested here. In fact, if you start your book with a dream sequence, flashback, or backstory and send it off to a literary agent, that literary agent will immediately throw your manuscript on the slush pile. Same thing if you start with your character staring at a mirror in order to describe him or her. These are elements of "telling," and not one of them moves the story forward. They do say you can integrate any of these things at a point in the story when they're required to move it forward. But the beginning is not that place, and most will argue that most places are not that place.

But if you have no intention of trying to sell it, then I wouldn't worry about it. If you do intend to sell it, then you'll need to consider this:

If there's no better way to start it, then you have to start it wherever it makes the most sense. Personally, I don't think it's a bad place to start if the point of the story is to show Ricky wanting to become a superhero. I mean, it makes sense that he would daydream about something like that. To introduce him as a threatening force, just to pull back the mask and show a giant kid, works better than introducing a kid who isn't even a threat and then trying to pass him off as a threat. Readers will buy the threat as you've delivered it. They won't buy it if you start him off outside of the dream and basically harmless. This is where breaking the rules of conventional wisdom can work.

Not to mention, if becoming a hero is the theme, then it makes sense that you'd anchor your story by foreshadowing him as a hero. The other stuff like getting bullied may play an important role, too, but I think that would serve better later, after we're given the hope that he can defend himself. And I'd rather see that in real-time, not as a flashback. Character growth is in the moment, not the past.

But yeah, I'm not bothered by the story beginning as a dream sequence--only because it starts with this dream sequence. It's on point with the theme, so it's fine. If you opened with a flashback of him getting bullied instead, well that's just depressing and lame and sets the wrong mood at the start, and I wouldn't like that as a reader.

Really, just work on the details and the dialogue. The essence of the opening scene isn't the problem here.

While we're on the topic of conventions, rules, and good storytelling:

Randal
Rusty
Ricky

Too many names that look the same will get readers brain-tied.

Anyway, I hope that clarifies some things. Quirk is fine. Boring dialogue isn't. Don't be afraid of some familiar themes showing up in your work at times. It's what allows readers to identify with it. Fully unique is impossible. A unique spin on a familiar story is better. Also, remember that the concept is what makes the story attractive, but the execution is what gets the reader to the end. Jurassic Park was a unique concept for its time (dinosaurs return and humans get to visit them at a dinosaur park, as long as the dinosaurs don't run amok and escape). It's also well-written, so readers typically get to the end. It's also a traditional monster story like Jaws and Frankenstein. Not that original after all. The chosen monster and setting are what's unique here.
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Post by BennyJackdaw »

Come to think of it, I just realized that the three thieves in Ricky's dream do not even need to exist, because they are completely irrelevant to the plot outside that dream. I have three criminals that appear later in the story that are much more prominent to the plot line. It would make sense if Ricky had a dream where he faced off against Infamous criminals that he possibly may have heard of on television or whatever news program they have. One ironic thing I just realized is that the criminals I mentioned are actually based off of hero archetypes. We have Adrian who is a warrior with a big sword, we have Gilbert who is a rogue with a pair of knives, and then we have Claus who is a magician. Another ironic thing? At one point, Claus/Klaus was a pretty common name for characters in RPGs.

I did have someone else criticize the fact that a lot of my characters start with the same letter. Getting rid of those three useless characters might help that. In addition, I also have Toasty (Complexity Addicted Hero), Titi (Fashionista Hero) and Titus (semi-antagonist) who start with T, and I was thinking of renaming Titi (tee-tee, not titty) Maya as part of the process of trying to fix that problem. I do have a lot of characters oh, so I am bound to reuse the same first letter a few times, but even then it's a good idea to avoid combining the same first letter and last sound, which is another good reason to rename Titi, since not only does she have the same first letter and last sound as Toasty, but the two characters are constantly in the same scene.

I haven't gotten around to reading your entire post, but it looks like there's some good info in there. And with that ends my post, and I am 20 Slime-bucks closer to becoming Slime-rich.
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Post by Pepsi Ranger »

BennyJackdaw wrote:Come to think of it, I just realized that the three thieves in Ricky's dream do not even need to exist, because they are completely irrelevant to the plot outside that dream. I have three criminals that appear later in the story that are much more prominent to the plot line. It would make sense if Ricky had a dream where he faced off against Infamous criminals that he possibly may have heard of on television or whatever news program they have. One ironic thing I just realized is that the criminals I mentioned are actually based off of hero archetypes. We have Adrian who is a warrior with a big sword, we have Gilbert who is a rogue with a pair of knives, and then we have Claus who is a magician. Another ironic thing? At one point, Claus/Klaus was a pretty common name for characters in RPGs.
This change to dreaming about actual criminals would also do the job of setting the stakes and the conflict right out the gate, especially if at some point he confronts one of them and nearly dies from losing so bad (which is another essential part of the hero's journey, so don't waste the opportunity by letting him win the first time...or, if he does win, let it be by the skin of his teeth, and that it leads to arrogance, and that he definitely loses the second time because he'll need something to bounce back and heal from, not to mention become humbled by if an early victory leads to arrogance). But yes, definitely a good idea.
BennyJackdaw wrote:I did have someone else criticize the fact that a lot of my characters start with the same letter. Getting rid of those three useless characters might help that. In addition, I also have Toasty (Complexity Addicted Hero), Titi (Fashionista Hero) and Titus (semi-antagonist) who start with T, and I was thinking of renaming Titi (tee-tee, not titty) Maya as part of the process of trying to fix that problem. I do have a lot of characters oh, so I am bound to reuse the same first letter a few times, but even then it's a good idea to avoid combining the same first letter and last sound, which is another good reason to rename Titi, since not only does she have the same first letter and last sound as Toasty, but the two characters are constantly in the same scene.
Once the reader knows your characters well enough, the alliteration won't matter so much. The key is not to throw them all into the same introduction or anywhere near the same introduction where the reader won't know who's who. If you introduce Toasty on Page 10, Titi on Page 160, and Titus in Book 2, but they all become a team later, I think enough time will have passed that your reader will be able to tell them apart. If they all show up on Page 10, however, then you'll have a situation on your hands.
BennyJackdaw wrote:I haven't gotten around to reading your entire post, but it looks like there's some good info in there. And with that ends my post, and I am 20 Slime-bucks closer to becoming Slime-rich.
I don't even know how many slime bucks I have. I stopped paying attention to that years ago.
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Post by BennyJackdaw »

Honestly, you're giving me some really good info to go by when I decide to write my next draft. Also, I don't really care about slime-bucks, I just wanted an excuse to say slime-rich.
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Post by Bob the Hamster »

I like to pretend that Slimebucks are just the worst cryptocurrency :D

I am planning to create a character bios section for my novel's website. Here is the text I have come up with so far:

-----
Catt Zago

Catt Zago used to be a thief and a mercenary. She definitely might have stolen some gold, and she maybe possibly could have made various people very angry for various good reasons.

No, she would rather not discuss that right now, she has put it behind her.

In this case, “putting it behind her� means fleeing across deserts, and forests and mountains (and maybe just one more desert to be safe) until she arrives at the isolated but thriving city-state of Great Bakak, where she hopes to start a new life.

What kind of a new life? Well, Catt is going to play it by ear, but she would like to stay out of trouble with the law, avoid any complicated entanglements, and try to take it easy for a while.

What could possibly go wrong?

-----

Segna Ur-Segna

Segna is a Professor of Magic at the University of Bakak. Devoting her life to the study of magic, and to the education of young wizards has left her with little time for much of a social life, but sometimes she does like to get dressed up and attend a public festival for the feasting and the dancing.

She was an only child, and an adopted child, and her parents have passed on, and although she has been too busy with her work to examine the feelings, she is a bit lonely, and is more open to a change in her life than she might even know herself.

When the opportunity comes up to add her name to the Royal Lots, she would normally decline politely, and continue enjoying the festival, but today? Today maybe she will say “yes�.

-----

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Uncertain? Join us for all-denominational wailing and chanting twosday and foursday evenings at sundown. All welcome!
Visit the PolyPantheonic Temple, 41 Red Forge Way, Ground Floor, Marketday District (Turn West from Sausage Row, behind the Garment Bazaar)
Bring this flier with you for half price on your first blessing!
(Some limitations apply)
(Blood sacrifices exempted)
(Schedule ahead for worship parties of 10 or more)
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Post by Pepsi Ranger »

Oh, Bob the Hamster's post reminds me that I nearly forgot this:

Campfire Blaze has a free open beta for the month of October. I did a first impression video about it a few nights ago:

[yt]sD5fUOBQoO8[/yt]

I'm messing around with it a bit more, trying to understand it better, and so far I can see a lot of potential in it. I went ahead and picked up its permanent older sibling, Campfire Pro, a little while ago because I got a code from ProWritingAid for 30% off for being a subscriber to their newsletter, and I thought it wouldn't hurt to have a version I can keep that can still accomplish much of what Blaze is both promising and achieving. But picking up the older version has helped me to better understand how to use the newer one.

The video is pretty rough around the edges since I wanted to give viewers my purest first reaction to it, and I plan to record a new one soon (probably comparing the two versions). But if anyone of you story planners wanted to test it out, now's the best time to do it since it's free all month. I think you can also export your info to PDF in case you decide not to get the official launch version in November but want to keep your ideas.

Anyway, it's not nearly as bad as my first impression makes it seem. I definitely think it'll be a good investment for story planners (especially those of us who like epics and "nerd fiction"). But it still needs work, especially in the plotting section of the app. I still can't figure that thing out. The other accessible modules, though, are excellent, some of the best I've seen in a story planning app. Way better than what my fledgling first impressions video suggest. I'll post the comparison video once I record it, probably later in the week.

For those of you who do want to try it out, here are a couple of pro tips:

1. Right-click over filenames to open the pop-up that allows you to change them. Not sure why I didn't figure this out in the video.
2. Opening attribute menus allows you to select fields (in whichever cards has an embedded field selection attached). USE THIS FEATURE. It invites you to select attributes you probably never thought of, like GDP and Biome. It's ridiculous and highly useful, especially for character creation (in the "Basic Info" box).

I think it's worth checking out, especially this month. Will it be worth the price when it goes live in November? Not sure. Fortunately, it's module-based, so you'll only pay for what you use. But the answer really depends on how you develop your stories. I'm still on the fence because I don't typically do much planning. Where a program like this is likely to help me is with cataloguing the details I've uncovered in the writing. Still not a bad thing. For now, I'll be using Campfire Pro to help me with this.

But I gotta say, Blaze's "Basic Info" box is soooo much better than Pro's. I'm tempted to swipe all of Blaze's attributes and make a template of them in Pro. But even then, Blaze offers a well-populated list of options for most of its selections that it would be mind-numbing to duplicate it. This is where I think Blaze has already surpassed its predecessor, even in the beta stage. When I release the second video, I'll show you what I'm talking about.
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Post by BennyJackdaw »

On the topic of villains being more likable than the heroes, one thing I see a lot in villains that I rarely see in heroes anymore is love and compassion for animals and non-human life, which is something I heavily relate to. Of course, those villains also don't care very much about humans, and have goals that generally involve harming humans, often times with the intent of saving all other life.

Meanwhile, the goals of the hero generally only benefits humans, and also generally result in the Mass Slaughter of other life, and an end goal that generally will result in further suffering and Extinction for other creatures. It seems like the only time the hero is allowed to care about animals is if they are a hunter, which honestly infuriates me. While I've heard all of the arguments in favor of hunting and I know it can be useful and necessary, it also feels like common knowledge is that hunting is always good, can never be flawed, and I always get the impression that media treats all Hunters as if they are pure and Noble, even though I know way too many hunters who are zoosadistic nutjobs who exists just to villainize the entirety of nature and those who care about it. Not all of them, of course, have been that way, but a lot of ones I met have been, and I never see that kind of Hunter in Media.

It seems like environmentalism of the 90s or so has caused such extremist contrarianism to the point where it feels like a common mindset that all non-human life is garbage and that all environmentalism is evil and we should do with the exact opposite of what environmental science says, and such. It is true that there was a lot of environmental propaganda back in the days, but now it feels like anything even remotely pro-environment is treated as propaganda. Only if it portrays nature as evil and humans as misunderstood angels is it a good Environmental story.

But that's kind of me ranting. I wouldn't exactly say I come close to the ultimate eco-warrior or anything like that. I do what I can at times, and that is usually cleaning up trash off the side of the Street. I'm not a vegetarian, but my family does raise their own beef and I personally do respect vegans to an Extent, and while I have seen elitist vegetarians, I've also met elitist meat eaters as well, which the kind of hunters I mentioned above generally are as well,. Mostly I just said all of that to give you an idea of why I have such a hard time relating to Heroes and human, and that's only one reason. I can tolerate human characters if they are supported by non-human characters, but generally my favorite casts of characters don't have humans.
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Post by Pepsi Ranger »

Like I said, if you can craft a story populated by animals that have elements that humans (aka readers) can identify with, it's probably fine. The key is to make sure the reader understands your world. So, developing your world-building skills is probably a great idea at this stage. Just don't try to explain to the reader why you won't use human characters. Readers care only about the story you give them, not so much the one you aren't. In other words, keep it about the story you're telling, and the story you're telling happens to star animal characters. It can even be your brand, kind of like how Jasper Fforde writes about fairy tales with a modern spin.
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Post by BennyJackdaw »

I'm also trying to figure out how the creatures in my book came to be. My initial plan was to have all the creatures be the result of human experimentation and the book takes place long into the future where humans are long gone, but now I'm not so sure about going that direction. It's a fantasy universe, so I want to add more fantasy elements to my story. I'm almost considering changing the generic City that most of the story takes place in into a series of caves that were turned into homes and establishments. I almost kind of want this world to be a grab bag, having whatever I Can Dream up in it.
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Post by Pepsi Ranger »

I almost kind of want this world to be a grab bag, having whatever I Can Dream up in it.
That would definitely keep it interesting. But make sure whatever "rules" you create aren't broken by the grab bag effect.
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