Heart of Darkness

[Skullduggery Studios]

Okay, so I know I've made a thread similar to this before, but here it is again...

I've made one game and co-made one, both entered into a contest. However, both suffered from lack of time. I'm thinking that I'm not organizing my time to work on the game as well as I could be.

I'm now working on a game for the Heart of the OHR contest, and want it to be everything it can be by the time the contest ends.

So, I'm looking for those who have made good (read: awesome) games in restricted amounts of time to weigh in and give suggestions as to what I can do to organize by time better.

Right now, I've organized up a storyline, all the maps (as of so far...), all the enemies (as of so far...), the heroes... and I think that's it.

I've started on the first map, and it took me a whole day to make 5 rooms in a house, including a hall between floors. I am focusing all my energies on making the maps as good as possible, both visually and physically (wallmaps, NPCs, etc...).

I also started incorporating a quest log into the game; along with a tutorial for first-time OHR players.

Now, this was all over the course of two days (planning:one, making:two). Is this good? Could this be done better?


And I'm not going to lie. Part of the reason for this thread is the arguments I've picked over the last two games I've been a part of. I seriously think I'm not doing this as well as I can. I have incredible ideas for games, but either they don't get done, or they don't get even close to the quality I wanted. (yeah, that's the case for both of the ones I've participated in.)

Okay. Done talking. Your turn, if you so wish...



EDIT: The game's name came right before I started working on it. I completed the intro screen soon after:

[JSH357]

I'm going to ask a bunch of questions here, and you don't have to actually answer them all; it's stuff to help you think through this mainly.

How long did you spend in the design process? How deep are the designs, like how much of it do you have pre-planned vs how much is going to be you making it up as you go along? (Both approaches work, but obviously it's best to have as much planned beforehand as possible)

One of the keys to making a concise, interesting game in a short amount of time is to focus on making what you have planned. When you start adding a bunch of random things, you complicate your concept and increase the amount of time that will be devoted to fixing stuff and re-balancing the experience. Now, you can always add new things in (and you'll think of things to add as you go) but don't deviate too much from what you had in mind to begin with.

It's kind of hard to judge your current progress without any information. What is the main idea of this game you're making? The central focus of it? Do you have a visual style in mind, and do you know what type of audience would probably enjoy playing it? When you say you have heroes and enemies planned, what precisely do you mean? Do you have the stats carefully structured? Have you done any testing to see if the stats hold up as well in practice as on paper? Does the player have enough options to stay interested, but not so many that it's overwhelming?

The most basic question to ask yourself really is:
"What experience do I want the player to have?"
If the game delivers on this, you've succeeded. The hard part is working out all the fine details to get that happening.

So go ahead and get started. Post some progress updates, and ask questions. If you want this to be your best game so far, and you cared enough to post this thread, that's great. Outside input will benefit your game a ton.

[Skullduggery Studios]

...you don't have to actually answer them all

I'm going to anyways, just to make sure I don't miss anything.

How long did you spend in the design process? How deep are the designs, like how much of it do you have pre-planned vs how much is going to be you making it up as you go along?

I spent a little over a day, and since I had practically nothing else to do, I got quite far. Pre-planning is quite extensive. I would LIKE to say it's complete, but I'm sure I'm going to add pieces as I go. I already added two levels yesterday I hadn't thought of before.

One of the keys to making a concise, interesting game in a short amount of time is to focus on making what you have planned.

Well, considering that it's for the Heart of the OHR contest, which goes until Nov. 30, I have a little more time than with the fangame contest. However, I do want to take an approach to get as much done as soon as possible, leaving myself a lot of time to test, bugfix, improve, and potentially make another. (my brother's bugging me to make one in particular...)

It's kind of hard to judge your current progress without any information. What is the main idea of this game you're making? The central focus of it?

To brainstorm, I bring up a Notepad document and just write. Here's an excerpt from what I wrote while brainstorming the storyline:

Jerome and Samuel are thrown into a portal, which brings them into a fantasy world, in totally opposite directions. The dad ends up in a castle, right when a bunch of denizins are trying to summon a demon. They decide to sacrifice Samuel, but the demon ends up using him instead. Jerome ends up on a farm, where he gets put to work before he gets enlisted. While in the army, he comes across a higher-up who's a bad guy. Nobody believes him, though, and he gets discharged. Aiker him without asking. They wander through a forest, following the maps that the other guy stole from a magician, and there, they run across a voodoo sorceress, Kayamine. She enlists them to oust a bunch of werewolves that keep ransacking her place at night. When they do, she joins them. The three of them make it to the villain's castle, and sneak in through the dungeons. They free two prisoners, only one of which joins them. The other turns them over. They manage to escape, now with the knowledge that the capital is going to be attacked in a matter of days. They start journeying back. On the way, at night, a messenger tells Jerome that his father is in the castle, and would like to speak to him. Jerome follows the messenger back, and Samuel wishes that they had never gone there at all. It happens, but Jerome gets a message from Kayamine that the castle is falling to the evil guy. He and Samuel travel back, and end up in the mountains. There, they meet a contigent of dwarves, who eventually agree to fight the villian. They get out of the mountains, but realize there's no time to get back so slowly. They intone the help of their goddess, who's actually a lady from the normal world, too. She leads them to a dangerous cavern, and the group heads through, getting back to the castle just in time, but maybe a little too late. Fighting through guards and monsters, they make their way to the top of the palace, where it turns out that the bad guy has been feeding off the fear and anger between son and father after the mother up and left. They get thrown into the dungeons together, and reconcile. Nearly immediately, Aiker shows up, busts them out, and they defeat the villian, heading back to our world with the dwarf goddess/woman, and they live happily ever after.

Obviously, in this alone, there's plenty of room to add and add and add. I'm kinda going for a FF/Zelda feel with this game, so I want plenty of puzzles and attack/spell/group focus.

Do you have a visual style in mind, and do you know what type of audience would probably enjoy playing it?

You seen the style for Prince of Persia 4? If you have, kind of like that. If not, then let me explain.
It's supposed to be a realistic style, but outlined in black lines, to create a cartoony/realism feel. Of course, if there are any ways I can mix that up a little (i.e. trees' leaves are outlined, but the trunk isn't...) I'm considering putting that in.

When you say you have heroes and enemies planned, what precisely do you mean? Do you have the stats carefully structured?

Yes, to a point. The stats are structured for the heroes from the beginning. The starting enemies are planned, too, but I haven't planned beyond that. As this is really the first game I'm focusing leveling on (in Nightmare on Elmo Street, the hero/villain didn't level up at all), I need to experiment as I go, both playing as someone blasting through the game, and as the type of player who likes leveling up as much as possible. Therefore, as the heroes get higher, I'm going to need the enemies to get harder along with the heroes, to make the game reasonable all the way through.

Have you done any testing to see if the stats hold up as well in practice as on paper?

Starting stats, yes. The rest will be tested as I go.

Does the player have enough options to stay interested, but not so many that it's overwhelming?

The game starts off with three attacks per player, and gradually grows throughout, depending on wielded weapons, spellbooks, side quests, and so on. I'm hoping three is a good start, and the addition as the player goes is enough to bring them into the game slowly but strong.

The most basic question to ask yourself really is:
"What experience do I want the player to have?"

Not really sure what you mean by this. If you're talking about the player from the beginning, then I'm assuming they have no prior knowledge of almost any game system (The first textboxes end with "Hit enter to continue...")

Two screenshots of the floor I've created so far:

Jerome's Bedroom:


2nd Floor Hall w/a quest text box:

[JSH357]

Well, what I mean is, as a game designer, think about what you want the player to get out of the game. Think about the reaction you want them to have to situations, and how they might approach them. That's really the basis of making a good game. (that and balance, but balance can be worked on as you go) If you have a clear idea of what the player's experience should be like, you should be able to make the game, play it, and say "Hey this is exactly what I wanted this to be like!" or "No, this is all wrong!" This is what helps you improve your game. Finish what you have made, then ask yourself if something needs to be changed.



Those graphics look pretty good, nice start on them.

As for the story, you need to get it beyond the summary form before starting, I think. One of the biggest problems new OHR developers have is that they do all of their text boxes on the fly as they're making the game. It's way more efficient to write every line of text in a word processor, then import the text. First, this makes it easier to find problems. Second, you can show someone else the script and fix problems that they find before they're in the game, where it's much harder to fix them. Third, if you have the dialogue complete before the game even starts, you'll make a much more focused storyline, and have a much better idea of what needs to be in every scene.

So if you haven't written a script this way before, I recommend it. Just try it with one story scene. Write what you think every character should say (possibly leaving notes about how they move around, what's on the screen and whatnot.) Basically, write as if you are writing a play or a film: making a game with a story is a LOT like stage direction.

[Skullduggery Studios]

Basically, write as if you are writing a play or a film: making a game with a story is a LOT like stage direction.

Interesting you said that, considering I'm an actor/director/screenwriter for stage and simple video.

Actually, the approach you suggested to take to scripts is exactly how I did the opening scene. I added the tutorial pieces as I went, as I formed the idea of my intended audience, but overall, it's exactly what I originally wrote.

Well, what I mean is, as a game designer, think about what you want the player to get out of the game. Think about the reaction you want them to have to situations, and how they might approach them.

Sorry. Still not making a lot of sense. Could you give an example?

Those graphics look pretty good, nice start on them.

Thanks. Here's how Jerome's dad's room differs:


Another piece of the storyline is that Jerome's mad at his dad, cuz he blames Samuel for causing his wife to leave. The absent wife is why only half of the covers appear used.

I like giving subtle hints to the storyline, just to add atmosphere.

[Shizuma]

Hey, I think you're a pretty good artist J. Taylor, with a good grasp of style. You need to take advantage of this, in a lot of ways this means you can produce a game faster in every visual department; you don't need to be too concerned with getting it "right" or fussing if your artistic strength and style overwhelm such minor elements. Use impact as substance. This is absolutely acceptable in indie-games especially.

Copy stuff a lot, copy and alter. Do whatever you want to save time that is effective because most people won't give bonus points for hard work.

I recommend planning everything before you do it, you don't have to plan everything before you open custom (and you shouldn't); but if you have an idea of what you want and need in the game you won't waste your efforts and they will be faster to draw/write.

[Skullduggery Studios]

Thanks. Pretty much everything you just said is either stuff I AM incorporating, or stuff that I WILL incorporate from now on.

The only thing I disagree with in what you just said is the copy/paste statement. I mean, I'm perfectly okay with drawing/redrawing. It's not actually that hard for me. Just outline, fill in, detail. And yeah, I'm going for detail, in both graphics AND in gameplay.

[JSH357]

It can still be helpful to have "outline" walkabouts to work off of though. You want to keep bodily proportions consistent throughout the game.

[Spoonweaver]

I'm liking the look of this one. Though that bare hallway could use some flavor.

[Sh4d0ws]

Yeah, those screens look pretty good. ( Well, the proportions are atrocious, but in such a toonish style, that's not important. )

You've accomplished moch more in much less time than I have, so kudos.

Edit: Also, make sure your screenshots are .png

[Skullduggery Studios]

It can still be helpful to have "outline" walkabouts to work off of though. You want to keep bodily proportions consistent throughout the game.

Not really sure what you mean, but I'll make a guess. I got a 'skeleton' of male and female, adult, and child. You know, so all my characters actually look like the same person did them, and not twenty. It's also a safeguard against accidentally changing my style halfway through.

I'm liking the look of this one. Though that bare hallway could use some flavor.

Thanks. What would you suggest? Besides pictures. I just thought of that one now.

Yeah, those screens look pretty good. ( Well, the proportions are atrocious, but in such a toonish style, that's not important. )

You've accomplished moch more in much less time than I have, so kudos.

Yeah, it's supposed to be toonish for the most part, as I explained earlier, but that's only part of the reason for the atrocious proportions. I'm also not that great at proportions yet. Heroes, I can do. Maptiles, still on it.
And to be honest, I haven't done much since that. I've just planned out the 1st floor, and put walls, floors, doors, and so on. There's nothing in the rooms, though.

Also, make sure your screenshots are .png

Gotcha. Means I'll have to wait while Photoshop opens instead of using Paintbrush, but whatever. Just for technical reasons, why should I? Is it that it opens better on other computers if it is?


Oh yeah. Totally unrelated question: How do you have a specific person's quote? Like, I can do the quote thing, but what about the "J_Taylor wrote:" piece? Is that just written and bolded? Thanks in advance.

[Sh4d0ws]

[ quote="J_Taylor" ][ quote ] ABC [ /quote ]
Should work marvelously for your poster-naming needs; without the spaces, of course.

And you wanna save in .png instead of .jpg, because .jpg ruins the quality of the image. This is especially important in stuff like pixel-art. If you're already saving them in .bmp, upload them with Imageshack. Imageshack automatically converts them to .png, and doesn't recquire an account, so everybody wins.

[Mogri]

GIF is usually good quality, too, but you'll get the best quality from PNG.

[Newbie Newtype]

The Direct X version of the OHR defaults to .jpg for screenshots, so be sure to change the settings if you are using that backend.

[Skullduggery Studios]

[ quote="J_Taylor" ][ quote ] ABC [ /quote ]
Should work marvelously for your poster-naming needs; without the spaces, of course.

Thanks!

The Direct X version of the OHR defaults to .jpg for screenshots, so be sure to change the settings if you are using that backend.

DirectX version of OHR?