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 PostThu Jul 31, 2014 7:11 pm
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sotrain515 wrote:
Wow sheamkennedy, that is a really neat house!

Anyway, LogHeckTech, I have a few general tips that might help you out. I can't provide any graphical bona fides, though, so take all this with a grain of salt I guess.

1.) I would say that the airbrush tool is generally your enemy. You'll probably get much better results going pixel-by-pixel (tedious though that may seem) or just foregoing that airbrushy effect altogether. Instead you can create large patches of single colors broken up with tufts of grass (or carpet, or waves, whatever) and shadow as shea (can I call you shea?) suggested.

Check out how Mother 3 does it (and I believe this game has been given as an example before for graphical stuff around these parts).

No "airbrushery" in the grass, dirt, forest or sky, just occasional shadows and cracks / tufts. And it looks fantastic!

2.) Don't be afraid to make your map graphics span tiles. Your computer looks good but kinda squashed. If you had it drawn so that it overlapped the rug and even up onto the wall, it would pop more and you'd be able to fit more detail on there. The door looks a little squashed to me, too. It also helps to obfuscate the grid (i.e. makes players less aware that everything has been pieced together from a set of tiles) when stuff overlaps other stuff: you could have the couch creep up on the the wall a bit too and maybe have the top edge of the TV overlap the tiles above it so that the hero's feet are obscured when he's right up next to it.

3.) Whenever you finish a "graphic" (say a map, a sprite or even a hand-drawn image), try mirroring it horizontally and then looking at it again. I dunno if this is true for everyone but I've always had a difficult time judging the quality of artwork I have created myself. I've found that mirroring it helps me to have a more "objective" eye when appraising it.


That Mother 3 shot looks pretty good. I especially like the house. I'll give the grass style a shot, but I think I may want to add a few extra tufts. I'll see if I can't make some of the fixes you mentioned here in a few. I need to take a shower and get some coffee going so I can focus. As far as the TV, how would that be accomplished with it obscuring his feet? Wouldn't it have to be part overhead tile for that?
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 PostThu Jul 31, 2014 7:51 pm
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LogHeckTech wrote:

That Mother 3 shot looks pretty good. I especially like the house. I'll give the grass style a shot, but I think I may want to add a few extra tufts. I'll see if I can't make some of the fixes you mentioned here in a few. I need to take a shower and get some coffee going so I can focus. As far as the TV, how would that be accomplished with it obscuring his feet? Wouldn't it have to be part overhead tile for that?


No overhead tile is necessary, in fact the overhead tiles are basically an obsolete feature in the game engine. You are now able to create map layers in the map editor, thus you could have a map layer which is placed above the hero/NPC layer so that anything on that layer obscures the character. Using layers is also good if you want to create all your floor tiles with one layer, and all your objects over top on another. There may be a tutorial on this but I'm not too sure. It's fairly easy to figure out in the editor.

@Sotrain515: Yes you can call me Shea, that's my name. Hopefully I can call you Sotrain, I tend to eliminate parts of peoples screen names when referring to them and never considered that it may not be something they want me doing.... Also thanks about the house. It was meant to be an example but then I liked it so much that I stayed up late and got carried away bringing it to life. I can't wait to get to houses in my own game, but my game really starts with a lot of pipes, futuristic, and grungy stuff...

Sotrain's Mother 3 example perfectly illustrates what I meant about making grass tufts. If you want your area more naturey then add more tufts, or larger shrubs and stuff like that. Also what Sotrain said about eliminating the grid is a good point. It's hard to do, but I think a good start is making various sizes of objects. A couch may take up 3 tiles by 1.5 tiles, while you may also have a rug which is not defined to a grid, or try having 3-4 different sizes of trees... etc.
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 PostThu Jul 31, 2014 9:18 pm
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sheamkennedy wrote:
LogHeckTech wrote:

That Mother 3 shot looks pretty good. I especially like the house. I'll give the grass style a shot, but I think I may want to add a few extra tufts. I'll see if I can't make some of the fixes you mentioned here in a few. I need to take a shower and get some coffee going so I can focus. As far as the TV, how would that be accomplished with it obscuring his feet? Wouldn't it have to be part overhead tile for that?


No overhead tile is necessary, in fact the overhead tiles are basically an obsolete feature in the game engine. You are now able to create map layers in the map editor, thus you could have a map layer which is placed above the hero/NPC layer so that anything on that layer obscures the character. Using layers is also good if you want to create all your floor tiles with one layer, and all your objects over top on another. There may be a tutorial on this but I'm not too sure. It's fairly easy to figure out in the editor.

@Sotrain515: Yes you can call me Shea, that's my name. Hopefully I can call you Sotrain, I tend to eliminate parts of peoples screen names when referring to them and never considered that it may not be something they want me doing.... Also thanks about the house. It was meant to be an example but then I liked it so much that I stayed up late and got carried away bringing it to life. I can't wait to get to houses in my own game, but my game really starts with a lot of pipes, futuristic, and grungy stuff...

Sotrain's Mother 3 example perfectly illustrates what I meant about making grass tufts. If you want your area more naturey then add more tufts, or larger shrubs and stuff like that. Also what Sotrain said about eliminating the grid is a good point. It's hard to do, but I think a good start is making various sizes of objects. A couch may take up 3 tiles by 1.5 tiles, while you may also have a rug which is not defined to a grid, or try having 3-4 different sizes of trees... etc.


I'll do some checking into the layers. Also, wow, Mother 3 was made on OHR? That didn't even sink in until you said "Sotrain's". I was thinking there was just one of them made by Nintendo, but it was released for NES and later upgraded on SNES. I had the SNES ROM at one point and played it a bit. It was funny how since I used save state it asked me if I needed sleep.
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 PostThu Jul 31, 2014 9:23 pm
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Perhaps I worded my sentence improperly. Sotrain did not create Mother 3 on ohrrpgce. I meant Sotrain's example, not the game itself haha.
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 PostThu Jul 31, 2014 11:31 pm
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LogHeckTech wrote:
Meowskivich wrote:
I think the computer desk looked off because it's shape is the opposite perspective as the tv and couch were.

As the couch and TV are trapezoids with their points far in the back but close in the front
like so
\__/
but the table is opposite, close in the back and far in the front
/__\

I honestly feel, though, that the only odd one out is that couch.


Hmm, you've got a point there. I'll have to redraw that. So you think the couch needs reworking?


I feel the TV and the table are good, as it emphasizes what is on the plane of your interaction, as best as I can put it.

The front of the table is emphasized for you to walk in front and look at.

The front of the TV is emphasized so that you can feel like you're watching a huge ol' plasma screen.

The couch looks like it's falling forward or something.

That's just how it looks to me. might have to do with the colors
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 PostSat Aug 02, 2014 12:18 am
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jamesdopp0004.png
Without the pizza.
jamesdopp0003.png
Went ahead and did some work on the kitchen. The pizza is an NPC that gives 8 slices of pizza.
jamesdopp0002.png
view #2 of the TV
jamesdopp0001.png
As suggested, I used layering on the TV (really loving that feature) to make it more realistic.
jamesdopp0000.png
As you can see I made the computer go against the wall and made it a bit bigger
Thanks for all your advice. I've taken everything into consideration and am working to make improvements. Here are some changes I made so far. Spent two hours working on it last night before I fell asleep. I've not yet started on the outside, I've just been tweaking the inside first. I also started on the couch earlier to make it more realistic. The thing I'm most proud of is the stove/pizza. I also plan to work on perhaps making the hero look more like he's pointed up and outwards from the floor since now he kinda looks flat and doesn't have the 2.5D appearance I want. Here are some updates. Let me know what you think.

Edit: I think I also need to put a baseboard on the kitchen cabinets because as of now they sort of appear to be floating above the floor.
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 PostSat Aug 02, 2014 5:04 am
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Hey, I think these new screenshots of yours show a huge improvement. I think you're at a good point now where you can go on to build other aspects of your game. Of course you should always post screenshots of everything you do so people can give advice. I especially like the fridge, stove, and couch... all done very nicely.

The more you work on other areas of the games graphics, the more you'll get a feel for what you want as a graphical style overall. You'll probably come back over and over to different parts of your game to improve the graphics as your skills improve. This is something that is inevitably going to happen, and it is something I struggle with in my own game graphics. I strongly advise you to continue making more and more graphics in your game, without getting hung up on an area.

As for your hero looking flat against the imagery, try drawing your hero more like this:


I don't mean draw your hero like the players in pokemon, I mean draw your hero with more of the top of their head showing, and less of their face. Since your graphics are all draw from a semi-birds-eye-view position, you will also want to reimagine and redraw your character from this same position. Thus you will see more of the top of their head and shoulders... I think you get the idea.
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 PostSat Aug 02, 2014 10:16 am
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sheamkennedy wrote:
Hey, I think these new screenshots of yours show a huge improvement. I think you're at a good point now where you can go on to build other aspects of your game. Of course you should always post screenshots of everything you do so people can give advice. I especially like the fridge, stove, and couch... all done very nicely.

The more you work on other areas of the games graphics, the more you'll get a feel for what you want as a graphical style overall. You'll probably come back over and over to different parts of your game to improve the graphics as your skills improve. This is something that is inevitably going to happen, and it is something I struggle with in my own game graphics. I strongly advise you to continue making more and more graphics in your game, without getting hung up on an area.

As for your hero looking flat against the imagery, try drawing your hero more like this:


I don't mean draw your hero like the players in pokemon, I mean draw your hero with more of the top of their head showing, and less of their face. Since your graphics are all draw from a semi-birds-eye-view position, you will also want to reimagine and redraw your character from this same position. Thus you will see more of the top of their head and shoulders... I think you get the idea.


Okay, thanks man. You really like the couch, though? I think I might still move it up a bit onto the wall as a second layer. I just don't think it's as good as it could be. I'll start on the outside now, though, after I add that baseboard to the counter . That picture was broken, but I know what you mean. Walkabouts were never my strongpoint, but I'll get on it and see what I can do. Hmm, that also reminds me that I still have to change the color of his shirt in the portrait.
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 PostSat Aug 02, 2014 8:58 pm
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jamesdopp0005.png
Screenshot from game
uploadthis.jpg
The picture prior to importing (for comparison)
How can I make the lettering bolder so it doesn't look blurry but without subtracting from the other colors? I tried drawing lightning in just one color and it made other parts, including the face, turn black when imported. I feel like the text is a bit hard to read and I would like to make it a little clearer and look natural without taking away from other colors in the picture. Any suggestions?
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 PostSat Aug 02, 2014 9:36 pm
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You could try drawing an outline around each of the letters in the title.

Also, trying using yellow for the text instead of red.
 
 PostSun Aug 03, 2014 5:26 am
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jamesdopp0009.jpg
jamesdopp0011.jpg
jamesdopp0008.png
RMSephy wrote:
You could try drawing an outline around each of the letters in the title.

Also, trying using yellow for the text instead of red.


Thank you, that worked out great. I also used the lightning as well, as terrible as it may look. I also figured out that the black was there because I was hitting "space" when it said choose transparent color or something when importing a screen. I hit escape this time.



EDIT:I just started the outside. I want to get that started before I redraw the walkabouts to help prevent getting stuck. I ended up doing the house like this. What do you think? Also, here's what I had in mind for the forest battle backdrops. I think it works pretty well. I live in the woods, so I have a lot of scenery to choose from.
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 PostSun Aug 03, 2014 7:33 am
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Looks good! I especially like that house. I think the grass tiles are a bit repetitive. To avoid this you can either do a single colour with tufts of grass scattered everywhere like discussed earlier. Or you can reduce the monotony by making some variation grass tiles, or even adding some dirt patches, weedy patches, flowers, stones, etc...
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 PostSun Aug 03, 2014 8:52 am
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Thanks, and yeah, I agree about the grass. I'm gonna try it both ways and see how it goes. One odd thing is that the layering doesn't seem to be doing what it did in the other map. On the other one layers 0 and 1 weren't overhead, but layer 2 was, on this one all three are not overhead. I wanted the top part of the house to be where you can walk behind it.
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 PostSun Aug 03, 2014 4:27 pm
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JimLuc T Kirkard wrote:
Thanks, and yeah, I agree about the grass. I'm gonna try it both ways and see how it goes. One odd thing is that the layering doesn't seem to be doing what it did in the other map. On the other one layers 0 and 1 weren't overhead, but layer 2 was, on this one all three are not overhead. I wanted the top part of the house to be where you can walk behind it.


This layering problem likely has to do with the way you have arranged your layers in the "Layers and Tilesets". To rearrange the order of your layers use the following key command, SHIFT+ARROW KEY UP or DOWN, while the desired layer you want to move is highlighted. You will want to arrange it so that the overhead layers are lower in the list than your Hero Layer and NPC Layer. (This menu is somewhat counter intuitive since the lower a layer is down the list, the higher it appears as a layer. It may be easiest to think of these layers in terms of "the lower down the list, the more in the foreground they are")

Hope that helps. Maybe look how they are arranged in your first working map then try and arrange the other so it looks like that...
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 PostMon Aug 04, 2014 7:42 am
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jamesdopp0019.png
jamesdopp0018.png
jamesdopp0017.png
jamesdopp0013.png
sheamkennedy wrote:
JimLuc T Kirkard wrote:
Thanks, and yeah, I agree about the grass. I'm gonna try it both ways and see how it goes. One odd thing is that the layering doesn't seem to be doing what it did in the other map. On the other one layers 0 and 1 weren't overhead, but layer 2 was, on this one all three are not overhead. I wanted the top part of the house to be where you can walk behind it.


This layering problem likely has to do with the way you have arranged your layers in the "Layers and Tilesets". To rearrange the order of your layers use the following key command, SHIFT+ARROW KEY UP or DOWN, while the desired layer you want to move is highlighted. You will want to arrange it so that the overhead layers are lower in the list than your Hero Layer and NPC Layer. (This menu is somewhat counter intuitive since the lower a layer is down the list, the higher it appears as a layer. It may be easiest to think of these layers in terms of "the lower down the list, the more in the foreground they are")

Hope that helps. Maybe look how they are arranged in your first working map then try and arrange the other so it looks like that...


Ok, thanks, that fixed it. Got another update shot here. Goes to show I need to rework the walkabouts or use some pixel offset. Or make the road two tiles thick, lol.


EDIT: I completely redrew the walkabouts and have mixed feelings. They sort of feel halfway 2.5D, however he also looks way too short now and still won't line up with the east/west road, lol.

EDIT #2: Oh dear GOD! I exited without saving after drawing those.
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