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This always happens, I get stuck at the very beginning of game development whenever I come up with a workable concept that I believe will be fun for me to make. This is after I write up a design sheet for game setting, scenarios, gameplay concepts, characters, and other things, but before I start actually making a playable game.
Does anyone have any tips on what the best thing to start with is to really lay a framework to build off of? I'm thinking either designing maps, or designing heroes/enemies/stats. But I'm not sure which would be better.
Stuck before I start!
Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:20 am 
Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:26 am
Picture unrelated
I suggest not getting ahead of yourself. Making a plan a huge 20+ gameplay hours game is great, but you might just be setting yourself up to feel overwhelmed by the mountain of work there is to do. Something I do is not break the game into things like all the music or all the enemies, but instead break it into in game segments. Think of the first few minutes of your game and just make that happen.
Also, getting the general frame of the game done. By this I mean the most basic of plot points. Don't worry about all the details at first. It's much easier to polish a game after it's done than polish it as you go.
Anyways, that's my suggestion.
Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:02 am
In my experience, getting an idea you like and starting on getting SOMETHING playable (even if it's just an early part of the game) tends to make things go faster. The longer I have a game sitting in an unplayable "just graphics and such" state, the less chance that I'll actually get very far on it... so trying to get every single bit of graphics for the whole game done before you start on making the game itself probably isn't the best idea unless you know it's going to be pretty short and all the graphics will be used fairly early on (to the point where a "not all graphics are done" version wouldn't even really be decently playable.) You can always go back and rework the early parts of the game later if they aren't quite as good as what you came up with later on, too, so it's not like your semi-rushed "got to get something playable at the start" bits need to stay that way forever.
For example, with Okdok I started working on Chapter 1 before I had more than vague plans for anything past Chapter 3. Didn't do nearly as much planning beforehand as I did with Fnrrf Ygm Schnish: Alleghany Hell School or even Puckamon... and yet Okdok got finished and the other two are still in incomplete (or not-even-released-yet, in the case of FYS:AHS) states. And of course, I went back and added more stuff later on to expand Chapter 1 a bit and fix things that could be better.
FYS:AHS -- Swapping out some step-on NPCs for zones + each step script
Puckamon -- Not until the reserve party is expanded.[/size]
For example, with Okdok I started working on Chapter 1 before I had more than vague plans for anything past Chapter 3. Didn't do nearly as much planning beforehand as I did with Fnrrf Ygm Schnish: Alleghany Hell School or even Puckamon... and yet Okdok got finished and the other two are still in incomplete (or not-even-released-yet, in the case of FYS:AHS) states. And of course, I went back and added more stuff later on to expand Chapter 1 a bit and fix things that could be better.
FYS:AHS -- Swapping out some step-on NPCs for zones + each step script
Puckamon -- Not until the reserve party is expanded.[/size]
Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:57 am
Spoonweaver wrote:
Well, starting is the hardest part of any project.
OBJECTION!
FINISHING is the hardest part of any project.
Evidence: all the unfinished games on the gamelist alone. That's not to account for those never uploaded, dropped, or otherwise.
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x
Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:14 pm
Spoony and Fnrrrf have given some good advice, but be careful. Making one section playable at a time is a very healthy approach. It gives you a lot of flexibility to let the game go where it wants to go. You can see the results of your work immediately, so you don't get discouraged as you might designing things you're not going to see till the end of your game. There is a danger though, and that danger is Done Syndrome.
What is Done Syndrome, you ask? Take a look at almost any of the unfinished RPGs on the gamelist. The ones where you get up to the first boss and the game says "End of demo! Thanks for playing!" and you wonder why they even bothered to upload. Their hands may've called it a demo, but their brains knew they were finished. That's why they uploaded it. How does it happen? It's a simple matter of human psychology. Making a game is a daunting task. It's inevitable that you'll get impatient at a certain point in the process. There'll be some landmark visible in the distance, a first boss, a basic level of playability, something you want to get to. With that in sight, it's easy to sprint ahead. Starve the kids and set the oxen to grueling, we'll be at Chimney Rock by dawn! And the sad part is, you'll make it there. Faster than you had any right to, you made it to Chimney Rock and you're done, triumph of triumphs, you've Done it... except the name of the game is Oregon Trail, not Chimney Rock Trail. You moved your own goalposts, you burned everything you had, and now it's over. You'll deserve a break, or you'll need to figure out where to go next. Maybe you'll post a demo, just to see what anyone thinks. But the sad fact of the matter is you're "Done". And once your brain thinks that, then every time you start working on that project again your brain is like "Gee, didn't I already do this? Come on, Baywatch is on!". That's why contests always have so many games, and why those games so rarely are updated after the contest is over.
So what can you do to fight it? Remember at all times that it's a marathon, not a sprint. Keep to a steady, attainable pace. At the end of every day, write down what you got done, what didn't get done, and what you expect to accomplish tomorrow. That keeps you accountable to yourself, and eliminates the time you'd spend at the start of the work-day finding something to do. I personally aim super low. On my current project, my goal is one set of down-facing walkabouts a day. That's easy enough that on a bad day I can get it done and feel victorious, and on a good day feel a little guilty and chip in a bit more. I've got a list of walkabouts I need for this area, but I'm not thinking of how many there are, how many days that'll be till I'm done. It's easier to climb the mountain when you don't know it's there.
Another thing to look at, is how many games just start with the hero and his friends going all "LOL, let's go on an adventure!". I think that's a result of the Spoony-Fnrrrf technique. The author didn't know how the story should start, so fuck it, they just started. Whatever you do, don't do that. Know your hero. If you know your hero, you'll know the kind of people he'd fight, the kind of towns he'd visit, and you'd know what the hell he's doing at the start of his game. Don't go overboard, obviously, you don't need to know their shoe sizes, but the most important part of any game is naturally the playable characters, and building your world around them is an easy way to make sure everything fits.
Chrono Trigger is probably the best example, doubly so since it has a silent protagonist. This is Crono, Marle and Lucca. They're human peasants from the year 1,000 AD! One of them isn't as peasanty as they seem (contrast :O!). Now they're in 600 AD and everyone is twice as peasanty (contrast :O!). This is Frog and he's a chivalrous talking frog (That's not a peasant OR a human! :O!). Now they're in 2300 AD and they're somehow even more peasanty (not what you'd expect! :O!).
You establish a baseline, 1000 AD, basic fantasy setting, normal humans. Then you deviate from it. This town is more magical, this town is more puritanical, this town is actually cavemen, etc. Your characters do the same thing, they give the player a point of comparison. Crono doesn't say anything, because he represents the player. It'd be distracting for him to be like "WHOA, MAN! THIS IS TOTALLY THE FUTURE!" if the player wasn't also feeling that way, so he's like, a blank slate to project yourself on. Most gamers at the time were little boys who wanted to be sword-fighty tough guys, so a sword-fighty tough guy was a good choice for the blank slate.
Marle and Lucca are then the contrast to that. They're GIRLS (LOL
), and they're the ones who react to everything. Marle reacts emotionally, Lucca reacts scientifically, and they can serve to tell the story to Crono and the player. Just like C-3PO and R2-D2! Notice how Marle and Lucca are stuck with us through most of the intro of the game, and then at a certain point, when they feel like we're invested in the world and what's going on, we can start switching out the voice of reason and the voice of emotion for robots and frogs and whatnot, because we've got feelings of our own about the narrative now and don't need to have our hands held. Just the same as Threepio and Artoo get swapped out for Solo and the Wookie.
To summarize, 'cause I'm rambly:
Spoon and Fnrrf are right, sometimes the best way to start is just to start. Do the work that's going to give the most immediate results. You should have a vague idea of the game's overall arc, but save the specifics for the area you're working on at the moment. Don't rush it, don't ever feel like you're done or getting close, just keep putting one step after the other. But remember, everyone works different. Somebody in IRC the other day mentioned that he always assigns his enemies attacks and stats and formations and stuff first, so that once the mapping's done all you've gotta do is plop down a foemap and move on. I'd go crazy doing that, but apparently it works for him. If you find something that works for you, don't be afraid to go with it.
And don't forget the best way to avoid getting stuck: Keeping your game simple to begin with. You're not a multi-million dollar corporate entity full of talented Japanese people. They invented the katana, don't you know. Thinking you can compete with them is folly. Know your limitations, know the limitations of your medium, and make the great game that's yours. Squaresoft will take care of Final Fantasy 24.
What is Done Syndrome, you ask? Take a look at almost any of the unfinished RPGs on the gamelist. The ones where you get up to the first boss and the game says "End of demo! Thanks for playing!" and you wonder why they even bothered to upload. Their hands may've called it a demo, but their brains knew they were finished. That's why they uploaded it. How does it happen? It's a simple matter of human psychology. Making a game is a daunting task. It's inevitable that you'll get impatient at a certain point in the process. There'll be some landmark visible in the distance, a first boss, a basic level of playability, something you want to get to. With that in sight, it's easy to sprint ahead. Starve the kids and set the oxen to grueling, we'll be at Chimney Rock by dawn! And the sad part is, you'll make it there. Faster than you had any right to, you made it to Chimney Rock and you're done, triumph of triumphs, you've Done it... except the name of the game is Oregon Trail, not Chimney Rock Trail. You moved your own goalposts, you burned everything you had, and now it's over. You'll deserve a break, or you'll need to figure out where to go next. Maybe you'll post a demo, just to see what anyone thinks. But the sad fact of the matter is you're "Done". And once your brain thinks that, then every time you start working on that project again your brain is like "Gee, didn't I already do this? Come on, Baywatch is on!". That's why contests always have so many games, and why those games so rarely are updated after the contest is over.
So what can you do to fight it? Remember at all times that it's a marathon, not a sprint. Keep to a steady, attainable pace. At the end of every day, write down what you got done, what didn't get done, and what you expect to accomplish tomorrow. That keeps you accountable to yourself, and eliminates the time you'd spend at the start of the work-day finding something to do. I personally aim super low. On my current project, my goal is one set of down-facing walkabouts a day. That's easy enough that on a bad day I can get it done and feel victorious, and on a good day feel a little guilty and chip in a bit more. I've got a list of walkabouts I need for this area, but I'm not thinking of how many there are, how many days that'll be till I'm done. It's easier to climb the mountain when you don't know it's there.
Another thing to look at, is how many games just start with the hero and his friends going all "LOL, let's go on an adventure!". I think that's a result of the Spoony-Fnrrrf technique. The author didn't know how the story should start, so fuck it, they just started. Whatever you do, don't do that. Know your hero. If you know your hero, you'll know the kind of people he'd fight, the kind of towns he'd visit, and you'd know what the hell he's doing at the start of his game. Don't go overboard, obviously, you don't need to know their shoe sizes, but the most important part of any game is naturally the playable characters, and building your world around them is an easy way to make sure everything fits.
Chrono Trigger is probably the best example, doubly so since it has a silent protagonist. This is Crono, Marle and Lucca. They're human peasants from the year 1,000 AD! One of them isn't as peasanty as they seem (contrast :O!). Now they're in 600 AD and everyone is twice as peasanty (contrast :O!). This is Frog and he's a chivalrous talking frog (That's not a peasant OR a human! :O!). Now they're in 2300 AD and they're somehow even more peasanty (not what you'd expect! :O!).
You establish a baseline, 1000 AD, basic fantasy setting, normal humans. Then you deviate from it. This town is more magical, this town is more puritanical, this town is actually cavemen, etc. Your characters do the same thing, they give the player a point of comparison. Crono doesn't say anything, because he represents the player. It'd be distracting for him to be like "WHOA, MAN! THIS IS TOTALLY THE FUTURE!" if the player wasn't also feeling that way, so he's like, a blank slate to project yourself on. Most gamers at the time were little boys who wanted to be sword-fighty tough guys, so a sword-fighty tough guy was a good choice for the blank slate.
Marle and Lucca are then the contrast to that. They're GIRLS (LOL
), and they're the ones who react to everything. Marle reacts emotionally, Lucca reacts scientifically, and they can serve to tell the story to Crono and the player. Just like C-3PO and R2-D2! Notice how Marle and Lucca are stuck with us through most of the intro of the game, and then at a certain point, when they feel like we're invested in the world and what's going on, we can start switching out the voice of reason and the voice of emotion for robots and frogs and whatnot, because we've got feelings of our own about the narrative now and don't need to have our hands held. Just the same as Threepio and Artoo get swapped out for Solo and the Wookie.
To summarize, 'cause I'm rambly:
Spoon and Fnrrf are right, sometimes the best way to start is just to start. Do the work that's going to give the most immediate results. You should have a vague idea of the game's overall arc, but save the specifics for the area you're working on at the moment. Don't rush it, don't ever feel like you're done or getting close, just keep putting one step after the other. But remember, everyone works different. Somebody in IRC the other day mentioned that he always assigns his enemies attacks and stats and formations and stuff first, so that once the mapping's done all you've gotta do is plop down a foemap and move on. I'd go crazy doing that, but apparently it works for him. If you find something that works for you, don't be afraid to go with it.
And don't forget the best way to avoid getting stuck: Keeping your game simple to begin with. You're not a multi-million dollar corporate entity full of talented Japanese people. They invented the katana, don't you know. Thinking you can compete with them is folly. Know your limitations, know the limitations of your medium, and make the great game that's yours. Squaresoft will take care of Final Fantasy 24.
Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:31 pm
If I may also add to what Gizmog said regarding writing down your progress each day. What I like to do each day is plan out a few point-form notes of what I want to get done today. I always write a bit more than I know I can handle. At the end of my day I get rid of all the tasks I've completed, and upon working the next day I add a bit more as I did before. This way there's always something that needs to get done next no matter how hard I try, but the list looks so small that it looks like I can almost reach the end.
Another thing I do is post my game log online in a blog. I doubt many people actually view my game log in my blog, but because it's posted online it makes me feel like I have an audience and I don't want to let them down so I must continually accomplish my tasks.
⊕ P E R S O N A L M U S I C: https://open.spotify.com/album/6fEo3fCm5C3XhtFRflfANr
⍠ C O L L A B M U S I C: https://dustpuppets.bandcamp.com/releases
Another thing I do is post my game log online in a blog. I doubt many people actually view my game log in my blog, but because it's posted online it makes me feel like I have an audience and I don't want to let them down so I must continually accomplish my tasks.
⊕ P E R S O N A L M U S I C: https://open.spotify.com/album/6fEo3fCm5C3XhtFRflfANr
⍠ C O L L A B M U S I C: https://dustpuppets.bandcamp.com/releases
Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:56 pm
Thank you for the tips and advice everyone, much appreciated. It's all definitely food for thought.
Another thing I'm going to try is budgeting a certain amount of hours per week to work on the game I'll be doing for HOTOHR. That way I can tell myself "you need to work on the game for 5 hours each weekend day, and 5 hours total during the week, for a total of 15 hours per week" and crack my own whip. It's also a doable free-time budget, and leaves me a few hundred hours total for game development before the end of November. Which will hopefully be enough to turn out a fun, reasonably fine tuned, nice looking RPG.
Another thing I'm going to try is budgeting a certain amount of hours per week to work on the game I'll be doing for HOTOHR. That way I can tell myself "you need to work on the game for 5 hours each weekend day, and 5 hours total during the week, for a total of 15 hours per week" and crack my own whip. It's also a doable free-time budget, and leaves me a few hundred hours total for game development before the end of November. Which will hopefully be enough to turn out a fun, reasonably fine tuned, nice looking RPG.
Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:19 am
Foxley wrote:
Another thing I'm going to try is budgeting a certain amount of hours per week to work on the game I'll be doing for HOTOHR. That way I can tell myself "you need to work on the game for 5 hours each weekend day, and 5 hours total during the week, for a total of 15 hours per week" and crack my own whip. It's also a doable free-time budget, and leaves me a few hundred hours total for game development before the end of November. Which will hopefully be enough to turn out a fun, reasonably fine tuned, nice looking RPG.
Discipline like this is so important. Even if feel utterly exhausted, sit down at your computer and do something on your game. Even if it is just proofreading text boxes or testing.