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Metal King Slime
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 PostSun Mar 02, 2014 10:47 pm
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That's what I thought, motherfucker you ain't got shit.

Mods, NOW close the thread. PLEASE, as soon as possible, while the burn is still there. Thank you!
Blubber Bloat
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 PostSun Mar 02, 2014 10:58 pm
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Everyone, just plz, stahp.
No, for real, hurling around insults, even if ideas are or are not the best, just stop.
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x V
Red Slime
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 PostSun Mar 02, 2014 11:08 pm
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Ah, I see now.
May the Moon light your path, and the Shadows hide you from your prey.

Posgagen urzefa Posyosriig ahgesqizeur genyouldr Jiikyouldr, gariigig urzefa Sazegaigyouldsa zegesigfe genyould fr'yopos genyouldr jiikrfagen.
A Scrambled Egg
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 PostSun Mar 02, 2014 11:32 pm
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I hereby grant the OHR community my permission and blessing to use any graphics featured in the 2005 OHR classic Summertime Surlaw.
Super Walrus Land: Mouth Words Edition
Slime Knight
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 PostMon Mar 03, 2014 2:07 am
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The Wobbler wrote:
I hereby grant the OHR community my permission and blessing to use any graphics featured in the 2005 OHR classic Summertime Surlaw.


Finally!
Liquid Metal Slime
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 PostMon Mar 03, 2014 9:12 pm
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Wow to everything.

Gizmog wrote:
You wanna do something useful? Write an article. Break open Wandering Hamster, break open Vikings of Midgard, break open any sliming game you want, and pick a feature. Then, look in the scripts, look in the file and figure out how that feature works, and write an article telling people about that feature, why they'd want to use it, and how the game in question pulled it off, what you could do to make it your own, etc....


I actually think this is a good idea, if not the only good idea in this thread. Based on something Spoonweaver wrote in another thread about the size of the community's influx, I agree that something like this might be more effort than it's worth. But I do think that in a perfect world, this would be a good idea.

Many of us started here in this community many, many years ago (scary thought), and had just a handful of resources to learn from: NPC Tag, PSTutor, Wandering Hamster, and Monterey Penguin (I consulted Penguin many times during my learning period). Each of these were unpassworded and included their plotscript files. The first two had attached documentation on the Hamster Republic website, which I believe are still available. We had a Help Me message board for things not covered in the tutorials or open files. For the things that were covered, we studied, learned from them, applied our newfound knowledge to our works-in-progress. This is how we learned the engine. Most of us who gave it the time were able to discover our strengths, our weaknesses, improve both, and make games that we may not have ever been able to imagine possible before. I now have three games that far exceed any expectation of my own ability that I first had. I still don't consider myself any kind of technical genius, and I'm certainly no math wiz, and yet I made one of the most complicated business sims on the OHR, and though it has plenty of flaws, it's a far cry beyond anything I thought possible when I first downloaded the OHR many, many years ago. Now, in those days the engine wasn't designed or capable of simulating many of the things that it can do today. But my games have evolved with the engine, and with each new evolution, I've had to stretch my brain a little and learn. I'm still not amazing with slices, but I'm a lot better now than I was when it was first introduced. How did I learn them? I read the plotscript dictionary (something I've been doing since Day One), and I asked questions about anything I didn't understand. I learned. Then I put what I learned into practice (a very important step). If it didn't work, I'd change the numbers a bit until it did. Sometimes design requires trial and error. It's time consuming, but because none of us are on a deadline, we can afford the time.

If I had an article devoted to the tricks that Wandering Hamster pulled off (or in modern-day case, Vikings of Midgard), I'd have learned the engine faster. I'd certainly have my understanding reinforced. But even now that's a bit unnecessary since CUSTOM now has help menus attached to every menu. And yes, I still consult the F1 menu on areas of the engine that I still need reminders about, especially with battle formulas and selected bits. Between the F1 menu, plotscript dictionary, unprotected games that come with plotscript files, the message boards, and #slimesalad on IRC (where James and TMC can sometimes be found), I have no excuse not to learn new tricks and improve my skills as I push forward to seeing my vision (my unique vision) come to fruition.

To be clear, I'm not against a starter kit in theory, if it's used to teach. But I am against a starter kit designed to prevent improvement. Anyone who's serious about anything will do the research. Not to sound overly political, but once we seek others to hold our hands and do things for us that we could easily learn and do ourselves, we cease to be creative, intellectual, or functional. Yes, we need instruction if we can't figure something out on our own. That's valid. Articles on how certain games pulled off certain tricks would be helpful. But we don't need someone else doing our work for us if we're under no time constraints. I stand by my career statement: "Laziness is not an option." If you want to do something, learn how to do it. It took me forever to understand how arguments work, but now that I do, I use them all the time and love how efficient they make things for me. I had to ask questions several times and eventually have msw188 spell it out for me in kindergartener terms before I could understand them. But his lesson ended up helping me loads. James and TMC are still showing me how to pull certain tricks off.

Let's be realistic here. Even if a newbie learns the basics from a starter kit, he's still gonna have to learn the advanced stuff if he wants to truly see his vision come to life. What good is a hand-holding starter kit if he's just gonna need more hand-holding in the advanced kit? Let me give you an example of what happens when you don't learn and do for yourself:

In eighth grade I failed Algebra because I missed something essential early on and couldn't get back on track. I had to relearn the entire course in summer school just to pass it. My entire math career throughout high school was subpar because I somehow missed the basic understanding behind complicated math. By the time I got to 12th grade, I voluntarily dropped my AP Calculus class because I knew that if I passed it (by the skin of my teeth, which was unlikely by that point), I would've been stuck with college math credit that I could not reverse, which meant I would've been required to take Calculus II on up if I wanted my mandatory math credits. I never would've been able to pass those required classes if I had continued forward in my lack of understanding, and I would've been screwed out of my degree had I not admitted that I needed to reinforce my practice of the basics. If I had continued forward, I would've been locked into my failing progress (you can't get math credit for backward learning), and how would that have helped me, my future, or my math skills? I dropped Calculus before it could screw me, took basic math and algebra in college, passed each one (Algebra with flying colors), and got my credits and my foundation secure. Then I started an English track and never again took a math class. I learn all my advanced math in the OHR now. Learning works. Hand-holding will just screw you over in the end.

I know what you're thinking: How will this help our community's numbers? Yes, maybe the lack of a starter kit might keep certain people away from the community. With this place remaining dozens small, as it's been for fifteen years, our numbers have been a detriment, and anything that can get more people interested in giving the OHR a chance should be encouraged. But, as Spoonweaver said in either this thread or the one that inspired this one, anyone who is too lazy to learn or put knowledge into practice (including graphic design) is probably not someone we'd enjoy adding to the roster here. I think what we want more than new game designers is new players, and offering the game-playing community a barrage of stock games is unlikely to keep anyone around for long. I'd rather we attract the people who appreciate quality and creativity, even if that means the numbers continue to trickle.

Having said that, I don't think this thread should be locked. I think it should be repurposed. Turn it into the lessons you've learned from other people, or the lessons you've figured out on your own. If that's even necessary. Of course, we've already got countless threads on how to do things, so maybe this dead horse has already jumped the shark.
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King Slime
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 PostMon Mar 03, 2014 10:25 pm
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This stuff is intense.
Red Slime
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 PostTue Mar 04, 2014 12:00 am
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Pepsi Ranger raises an interesting point that reminds me about an article on programming languages.
A starter kit can teach us how to do things, taking apart a game can teach us how some things were done, but without proper teaching, such as a tutorial or article, new members will not understand the semantics of the engine.
May the Moon light your path, and the Shadows hide you from your prey.

Posgagen urzefa Posyosriig ahgesqizeur genyouldr Jiikyouldr, gariigig urzefa Sazegaigyouldsa zegesigfe genyould fr'yopos genyouldr jiikrfagen.
Liquid Metal King Slime
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 PostSat May 10, 2014 1:18 am
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Oh man, I totally forgot about this thread. This explains why chronoboy seemed less than enthusiastic when I posted on his introductory thread over at Indiegamer.com
Blubber Bloat
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 PostSat May 10, 2014 1:41 am
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oh shnap. He should come back, we have cookies. And by cookies, I mean gifs of cookies. And by gifs of cookies I mean gifs of tacos.

I'd like to pretend I have a life, but I'm too busy doing nothing.
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x V
Slime Knight
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 PostTue May 13, 2014 1:18 am
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This thread is a tease. I was hoping when I saw Spoonweaver post that it would be the definitive Cat In Box RPG Starter Kit.
Blubber Bloat
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 PostTue May 13, 2014 5:21 am
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crowtongue wrote:
This thread is a tease. I was hoping when I saw Spoonweaver post that it would be the definitive Cat In Box RPG Starter Kit.

Nope, just taco gifs

dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x V
Liquid Metal King Slime
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 PostTue May 13, 2014 1:04 pm
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Blubber Bloat
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 PostTue May 13, 2014 3:04 pm
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dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x V
A Scrambled Egg
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 PostTue May 13, 2014 7:44 pm
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It's a regular laffolympics in here

Just kidding.
Super Walrus Land: Mouth Words Edition
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