RPG Starterkits

After reading a recent comment on this forum from Bob the Hamster:

Reference: http://www.slimesalad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=98785#98785

I thought I'd take the liberty to build what I dub an RPG Starterkit. The kit is a regular RPG file, which you can rename to your own game. The kit comes preloaded with tons of assets to play with, minus the actual Scenario. My first RPG Starterkit is based off the sprites and assets from the critically popular Wandering Hamster RPG. The RPG has all the original tilesets, walkabouts, heros, enemies, attacks, etc. This enables one to start building a brand new adventure for Bob and his best pal James. If you use this starterkit, please abide by Bob's licensing requirements stated above! I cannot stress that enough. I am not releasing this kit so that you can modify his awesome sprites and call them your own!!! And, please, for the love of god, give Bob credit for the graphics if you do use this kit.

http://iamkevin.ca/s/starters/wander-starter.zip

Bob the Hamster: If you have a moment, could you confirm that all the assets left in this file are good for use by anyone who wishes to develop an RPG game using it? I have left in hero and enemy stats, their attacks, and the battle formations. If you wish for their removal from the kit, and for it to only provide the graphics, I will alter it accordingly.

Main things which are absent:

Textboxes
Plotscripts
Maps and map data
Shops
Tags
I am sure there is more as well, basically anythng and everything scenario related is removed.

Note to everybody else: If you are interested in having an RPG file gutted to become an RPG Starterkit so that people with lesser artistic skills can still attempt to use the engine and create games of somewhat good graphical quality. Let me know, and I will see if I can allow some time in my schedule to quickly gut your RPG file of all scenario data. VIKINGS.RPG sounds like it might be a viable candidate, although I'd first like to confirm that with the artist.

Side note idea for a game competition: A competition about using another artist's graphics, and trying to adapt to their style. I can see one interesting artist here who has made some very interesting game art, BMR. Attempting to use his tilesets might be tricky for some, as they are fairly advanced. Namely his walkabout/NPC stuff.

Small update: If anybody did download it, I made some small updates, as not all the tag references and other settings were cleanly removed. I went through everything and replaced all the GEN data as it is in a brand new RPG file, and cleaned up all the broken script/tag references. I plan on testing it to confirm that it is usable soon. Oh, and I also blacked out all the screens/backdrops with scenario-based elements, so the default title screen on #9 is now pure black. Again, if Bob says anything else should be removed, there will be yet another update to this, as I want to abide by the original author's licensing terms for the work they created.

So, pretty much it will be to OHR what the Run Time Package is to RPG Maker.

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May the Moon light your path, and the Shadows hide you from your prey.

Posgagen urzefa Posyosriig ahgesqizeur genyouldr Jiikyouldr, gariigig urzefa Sazegaigyouldsa zegesigfe genyould fr'yopos genyouldr jiikrfagen.

I guess so, I've never used RPG Maker on the PC before. Only the PS1/PS2 versions. I have used other older RPG engines that had a similar concept of starter kits. Usually these kits are themed, say a medieval theme, science fiction theme, etc... They enable anybody to try their luck at making their own RPG game without needing to worry much about their artistic talent. Although if you do use the graphics of another artist, you normally cannot sell the product. However, if your intentions are just to either play around with an RPG engine, or create a game for fun and not profit, then using a kit is a great way to just jump in.

This community has mixed feeling about using non-original graphics, and dislikes the use of ripped graphics. I can fully understand the latter.

Something I would love to see this community more openly adopt would be the concept of sharing their artistic talent more in the form of starter kits. For example, say we have a Bob the Hamster starter kit, which has all of his artistic talent in a nice ready to use bundle. Then we have a FnrrfYgmSchnish kit, which showcases his talent, and perhaps a Pepsi Ranger one. Then, depending on how they want to License their work for others to use, the person who uses that kit would have to abide by their terms to use their graphics. Such terms could be like no modifications, cannot profit from it, and mentioning the artists name on the title screen or opening credits.

In the real world, when a JRPG was/is made you rarely(if ever) see a single author doing an entire project. You always see a separate artist, composer, programmer, and scenario writer. The reason is that one person cannot be great at everything, you normally specialize in one given area and put out your best efforts there. If you focus your effort all across the board, it has the potential of really burning you out and the end product may not be as grant as say the JRPGs were on SNES. These games were great all around(well most of them), the music was composed with someone who has been in that industry for years and even went to school for it. The artist would also be someone who more than likely went to school and has been in the industry for years as well.

At this point in my life, it is difficult to devote much time to learn something entirely new, such art. Maybe after I retire when I'm past 60 I'll once again have time to take up something new. My skills, if I focus on them and not every other aspect like art and music, is English and programming. Both of which can be applied and evolved through the creation of an RPG game. I'd love to evolve my story writing, as I am rather proud of my English skills. I already program in a variety of computer languages, and know HamsterSpeak pretty well too.

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read. I know I've said this before, but the key to a Graphics Pack kind of thing is that it has to be GENERIC. The kind of a thing you could tell virtually any story with. Bob The Hamster throwin' cans of spam at people is about as UN-Generic as you can get. James is a super creative person, and that means that every graphic I can think of *screamed* "This is James' game!". Those characters are too iconic to shoehorn into your own stupid RPG, it'd be like using Kirby.

I think the reason our community generally frowns on ripped graphics is because it shows a lack of creativity. People should want to make their OWN game, with their OWN characters. How can we take their vision of a character seriously when its being played by a graphic we remember as someone else? There's a reason it took nearly 20 years for Al Bundy to get back on TV, people!

Perhaps the dumbest part of it, you didn't even do anything yourself! You ripped graphics so that other people can rip graphics! How does that make any sense? Wandering Hamster is already unprotected, you could easily rip the graphics and use them by the terms James outlined AND with the added benefit of having a game you can play! When you see something in Wandering Hamster and think "How the hell'd he do that?" you can open up the file and see for yourself! By stripping the game out of it, you took away the best teaching tool there was and tried to insinuate yourself into the whole thing. Dick move!

You've got a good point, you rarely see any one person make a JRPG in the professional game making industry. But that's because they aren't trying to express an artistic idea: they're trying to make money. They don't make Final Fantasy games because they have a good idea for one, they make them because they have to if they want to continue to exist as a business. Our advantage as amateurs, as hobbyists, is that we're not expecting to turn a profit. What we get out of it is the fun of being creative and the joy of seeing our vision become a reality. When you do everything yourself, there might be parts that are better than others, but they're all *YOUR* vision.

And don't forget, most of the guys who worked on the Final Fantasy games, the early good ones at least, DIDN'T go to school to be musicians or artists. A lot of them are programmers or hobbyists who got dragged into video games because it was a new industry and they needed money! They had to learn the ropes the same way we're doing.

I'm not saying I'm against ripped graphics, starter packs, whatever the hell you want to call 'em. In fact, I think ripped graphics can be pretty great! I just think the focus should be on giving people the building blocks to making their own generic RPG to learn from. I don't want to see a million generic games, but a barebones RPG is a great way to figure out what you're doing so you can flavor it up next time. I don't see how taking the game out of Wandering Hamster helps anyone in that department and I don't know why you're the one who should do it.

And about your English skills, you sound like a god damn robot. Would you mind submitting to one of those Blade Runner tests where you look at a movie of a turtle for an hour?

Wasn't this half the point of Vikings of Midgard?

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Mega Tact v1.1
Super Penguin Chef
Wizard Blocks

While I'm not against the idea of a starterkit (and I think it might be a good-ish idea) I'm with Giz that Bob and company are a bit too iconic to be used as generic characters for an rpg.

Sure, other people who have never heard of Wandering Hamster won't really know him as being iconic, but for anyone who has it'll be a bit strange. And as he's already well-known in the community, and that we're practically one of the only audiences out there, it'll be a bit jarring to say the least.

If you're going to make a starterkit, then by all means get public domain or GPL resources that others in the community have provided, but they should indeed be as generic as possible. That'll make it so that while someone could look at the graphics and perhaps identify the artist, they won't be able to attach a specific character to it. Granted, that would require maybe making new sprites and whatnot, but nothing worth doing is ever easy.



p.s. And wasn't it about your reaction to the turtle rather than just watching the turtle? Or at least that's how it was explained in the book.

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Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.

Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl

I'm completely against this idea. For so many reasons.

1. The rpgmaker starter kit is the biggest reason that the rpg maker is looked down upon. Rpgmaker produces a thousand games that all look the same which is something that we should not only not support but should in fact frown upon.
2. Am I correct in thinking that you're basically saying you want to repackage the graphics from wandering hamster into a new .rpg file and then call it an rpg starter kit after putting your name on it? Like Giz said, What would actually be the reason behind this? Wandering Hamster already exists.
3. We already have a free to use graphics thread. If you want to help, add to that or promote it at least.
4. If you're not trolling by using the word "gutted" to describe what you're doing, then you're delusional.



Even though these are James' graphics and not mine, I still demand you take the file down, delete it, and feel ashamed.

Yeah, I kind of got a little sidetracked with it and made it a good few hours longer than it NEEDED to be. My bad!

Anywho, the graphics in Vikings of Midgard are free to use by anyone for whatever reason. It might be nice to get a shout-out or even to see what sort of cool stuff people come up for them, but I don't ever expect anything like that ;3

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To friends long gone, and those I've yet to meet - thank you.

@Spoonweaver: Yeah, but I've seen some amazing games that used the default RTP. Does that mean that people who use it shouldn't make their own graphics? No. I've been on a few RM-centric sites, and most of the people make and share tilesets.
Sometimes it's a basic set that expands on the base RTP, other times it's a well-done set that can make vastly different games.

However, we're talking about OHR, and I only brought RM up for point-of-reference.

@Gizmog: Yeah, taking graphics from other games, even with permission, can look weird and unprofessional. But, does any one person have the time to create an entire generic set of graphics so that new members can learn how to use the program faster? Chronoboy's intent is to create a basic toolkit with what is needed already in the file so that newbies can tinker around with everything and understand not only the optimal way to set up their own graphics, but also how to animate water. (Which I still cannot fathom. No pun intended.)
Ultimately, in my opinion, giving people the ability to better understand one of the program's quirks faster is better than blindly screwing around with the program, asking questions all the while, like I am.
I, currently, am so lost to the process of making a game that I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing, and I often have a panic attack just thinking about asking people how things are supposed to work because I'm a complete and utter noob.

But I digress from that tangent that I really don't want to continue on, mainly because it'll turn into a three-page long rant about my insecurities and self-loathing over my current inability to understand how tilesets are supposed to work.

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May the Moon light your path, and the Shadows hide you from your prey.

Posgagen urzefa Posyosriig ahgesqizeur genyouldr Jiikyouldr, gariigig urzefa Sazegaigyouldsa zegesigfe genyould fr'yopos genyouldr jiikrfagen.

Well, there's me for one. I've made a bunch of generic tilesets and stuff available, along with a sprite maker (of sorts) that can be used to make a whole bunch of generic sprites. And it's being updated relatively often.


As for understanding the engine's quirks and making a game, I've found that the existing documentation is pretty good for that. But that might just be me.

I do however agree that a detailed tutorial might be good for some people, particularly complete newcomers to game making. One of the reasons I've been putting together those guides (which will eventually go into the wiki once done). I do think though, that the existing documentation and resources are enough to get something basic going.

A starter kit could work. It has the potential to make things more accessible to the newbie. What I'd like to see would be some starter scripts included. Nothing complex, just really, really basic stuff that's easy to study, well documented, and easy to plug into anything. The graphics would also have to be easy to plug into anything, without being isolated or identifiable as being part of a specific something.

I do acknowledge though, that it would probably not be a good thing to see a bunch of games running about that all use the same graphics. A starter kit should be exactly that, something to start with. Something that'll give you an idea of how to go about things, but not something that'll hold your hand throughout the entire process. If all that's wanted are free resources, then there's Vikings or Wandering Hamster. But those graphics are already [url=rpg.hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/Free_Sprites]readily available[/url]. If a starter kit were to be made, it would have to be more than just a "gutted" rpg. It should provide something more substantial.



Also, animating water?



EDIT: I have no idea if I worded any of that as well as I should have. I'm half asleep as I'm writing this, so I'll prolly come back in the morning to clarify stuff if need be.

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Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.

Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl

Oddly enough, these are the type of replies I thought I was going to get. I only used Wandering Hamster because of James' licensing terms as mentioned in my original post. Under his terms, there was no wrong in what I did. I merely made it more accessible to new people. Would you rather have modified versions of Wander Hamster running around? Most newcomers who might see that, may either take the game as is and try to modify it to learn the engine, or try removing the story elements. And when you say there was no effort? Ha! I implore you! Do you understand how time consuming it was to properly remove the assets and set everything to their defaults? I needed to both unlump wandering hamster and a newly created RPG file and literally copy and paste lumps between them. I also had to delete some lumps manually as well. And don't get me f*'n started with the TAGs!!!! The most annoying thing to gut was those horrendous things. If any tag was left anywhere, and this kit was used, it had the possibility to really bug out.


Great statement! Although if one really wanted to learn how Wandering Hamster worked, they would either download the real WANDER.RPG, which mind you still exists... Or if they knew a specific feature was a plotscript, look inside the WANDER.HSS file.


Thank you sir for proving my point! If you read the entire post, you would understand that I hope to expand my character design and dialogue, not my lower level English skills.


Yes, I do believe it was.


Yes, I fully understand that BMR. I am just adhering to James' licensing terms, nothing more.


There's a free to use graphics thread? No, just joking I know it exists. This community should keep in mind that the import process into an RPG is sometimes not a very straightforward process. Now also consider all the graphics on that thread? A good number aren't exactly compatible with each other palette wise. This can impair the import process even more, and perhaps deter a newcomer as they perceive the engine as too complex for their needs. This can actually feed the RM community, as that engine is more accessible.


I don't believe I ate any Mushrooms or took any LSD last night... Hmm, I'll have to see if my friends did anything to me and get back to ya. Thanks for pointing that out bro.


So... Can I confirm from the community that I won't get backlash from following that statement and turning Vikings of Midgard into a generic viking RPG starter kit?


Shall I mention the somewhat tedious import system that might deter newcomers again? Similar graphics should be bundled together to make it easy for a newcomer to start out using them. I recall when I do importing, it can sometimes muck up the UI Colors, which can also break other things like the Textbox borders. Are these import quirks mentioned on the wiki or on this forum thread?

With all that said, I do thank anyone for their opinions and participation in this thread thus far. The community's next counseling session thread will be scheduled next Saturday around the same time. In our next session, I will dive deeper into this community's accessibility to newcomers. We are starting to make progress, but it will be a long road.

You've got to be trolling me right now.


Your first comment on giz's quote, is basically you disagreeing and then repeating what he said.

Saying you want to improve dialog and not your english skills is like improving your driving skills but not your steering.

You're not just "adhering" to Jame's licensing terms. You made a dumb rpgkit that kind of squeaks by his licensing terms.




Honestly, how much of a person's game should we make for them?
Who the hell are these "newbees" that can't even figure out how to draw? Are you trying to make the OHR literally accessible to toddlers?
I personally wouldn't want our community to look anything like the mess over at "RM". When some of your community's top games are Mario Palette Swaps somethings wrong.



Ok... Now you're definitely trolling.



Vikings IS a starter kit. The only starter kit you won't get backlash for is one that offers something that YOU made.
duh




Anyways, like I've said, the "newbees" you're refering to that need all this extra attention and games made for them are not only something we don't want but don't exist for the most part. If someone can't get their little mind around the simple task of importing, then god only knows how terrible the rest of their game will be. If someone's not willing to put in the effort to learn even the most basic things required to currently use the engine then why should we invite them into our community. Their liable to just be really annoying and post something like a starterkit that has 0% original content.

Diretooth:

Yeah, unlike Chronoboy's kit, a totally original set of generic graphics would take effort for someone to make. What I'm tryin to say is, if you're gonna rip graphics for something like this, at least rip graphics people could possibly use. Final Fantasy V's got a million hero graphics and a bunch of attacks just waiting to be ripped off, and they'd fit into damn near any kind of game you'd ever want to make. It'd be weird and unprofessional, but it'd be better than Bob The Hamster. You want to try to make an RPG featuring MICKEY MOUSE or a random knight/wizard/barbarian? Which one you think is more widely useful?

Chronoboy's intent is to do 20 seconds of work and try to get some kinda respect for being fuckin prometheus givin fire to the apes! Wandering Hamster exists to help guys like you figure things out. You play the game, you see stuff you want to do, you know how it was done! Strippin the game out of it and slapping Chronoboy's name on the front don't do a damn thing to make it any easier, it does a lot to make it harder, and it drags Chronoboy in who doesn't know a god damn thing. Someone plays Wandering Hamster and they got a question, they can ask James about it. Someone uses this starterkit and asks Chronoboy about it, he doesn't fuckin know, he ripped it off himself! You got the blind leadin the blind!

Someone makes a generic kit, they're gonna know the kinda effort it takes to animate water, to make a poison attack or a stun, to get your heroes lookin decent, how to make an airship and all that other shit that makes RPGs so fun in the first place. They're gonna be able to explain it to you, 'cause they done it. They're gonna know it takes hard work! Chronoboy's gonna have to wait for someone else to answer those questions and then strip all the useful parts out of it and slap his name on the front. That's my main objection: What does he do that Wandering Hamster don't already do, and do better at the same time?

Chronoboy:

That's the point I'm making, you an idiot or something?

WANDER.RPG exists. Its content is presented as a tutorial and is available under a Creative Commons License or some crap, the very license which lets you use it to create a "Starter Kit". Except your starter kit, by your own admission, strips out the scenario and everything that would give you a point of reference as to what James was doin and why he did it that way!

You also admit that you haven't even tested your starter kit to see if it actually works the way you think it would. What's the fuckin rush, kid? You're already talkin about stripping Vikings of Midgard and you don't even know if your Wandering Hamster template works?

Besides that, Vikings is the same deal as Wandering Hamster. I think it's under a Creative Commons License, I'm sure the file isn't protected, and it's meant as a combination of a game and a showroom/tutorial for all the different things you can do with the engine. Stripping the game out of it strips half the purpose. Fenrir and Bob are givin' people a real life V8 Motor to look at and play with, you're givin' 'em a picture out of a textbook. Which one's gonna teach more?

You wanna do something useful? Write an article. Break open Wandering Hamster, break open Vikings of Midgard, break open any fuckin game you want, and pick a feature. Then, look in the scripts, look in the file and figure out how that feature works, and write an article telling people about that feature, why they'd want to use it, and how the game in question pulled it off, what you could do to make it your own, etc. But you haven't got time for that, have you? If only someone would make a tutorial "Starter Kit"!

This is the fuckin' problem with this community! No one wants to be a part of it! We got a wiki, we got tutorials up there. Nobody gives a fuck, nobody contributes! I sure as hell don't! We've had people bust their fingers to the bone doin' magazines to fellate our egos and did anyone contribute? Anyone give those guys a week off? Anyone fellate their egos? Of course not! That'd take effort! I don't know what makes me sicker, how bad a member of the community I am, or how bad the rest of you are!

Short, short version: Quit hackin' up other peoples teachin tools to make your own teachin tools. You want to teach people with Wandering Hamster or Vikings of Midgard, you oughta write about 'em, use 'em as a reference the way they're intended rather than turning it into an empty shell for any fuckin scavenger to crawl into and then get stuck when he realizes he still doesn't ahve any clue what the fuck he's doin.

And fuck you for saying I didn't read your whole post. I did read your whole post and because you talk like a fuckin robot it didn't do me any fuckin good!

Now your just putting words in my mouth. I was not meaning to take credit from James for his work. I clearly stated the intentions, and that if James' graphics were used, he should obviously be credited. James' is a talented artist and great programmer which I do envy, and wish I possessed his artistic talents.

Anyways, since I don't wish to continue this aimless argument any further. There's no point in fighting/arguing/etc... This is the exact type of behavior which breaks communities. I am just putting out idea/opinion/etc... I can obviously see now that my opinions are not valid in this community. I will not speak of this idea further, you win, I give up. I don't want no more of this mindless arguing.

MODs if you read this: Please take the liberty to lock this thread.

No, don't close this thread. Answer me first:

If James stuff is already under a semi-public license, what do you add to the pot? You really think people are so incompetent they can't import their own graphics?