Weekly Game Talk: C. Kane

I just noticed why splitting the thread is a bad idea. I don't have the schelude in a set place now, plus if I slack on the job, the week doesn't start.
Oh well.
Guess I'll just report it on every new thread.

Anyways, this week we're talking about C. Kane.
To get it out of the way, this might be the most hyped up OHR game ever. It's always good to see OHR games being successful, so I'm glad this has got as much attention as it has.
That said, I wish it had gotten it's attention for other reasons. Most of it's hype stems from it's relation to the movie from where the game gets most of it's gruff. But, with the addition of our new porting tech, I'm sure we'll have an OHR game out there soon that's being talked based soley on it's merits alone.


The game itself it's really nice. It honestly feels like Surlaw's Citizen Kane of Games. He's done everything we like about his games here, and it'a even complete. This might be Surlaw's best game to date, and that's saying something. I'd go into more detail about graphics and story line, but I think there's no real point. There's nothing to really say except good job here. It's like trying to criticize in vikings of midgard, wander hamster, or sword of jade. Sure, they aren't perfect, far from it, but they are without a doubt the top notch stuff we have in the OHR.

Anyways, that's all the nice stuff I can stand to say. I better stop writing about this game before I let slip how terrible I thought it was.

Oh, so you're only reviewing the good games, is that it?

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dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x

@Meowskivich: Well that depends on how you look at it. I actually don't think C. Kane was very good at all. The games were picked because they clearly have not only a large amount of work put into them, but also have something to be said about them. Also, I feel like people would like to see more said about these games in general.
However, if this is some sort of "play my game" act, I gotta tell ya... you're going about it all wrong.


For future reference, anyone wanting their game in the weekly game talk ( which I don't see why you really would ) please just said me a PM here on Slimesalad. Your game will likely make an appearance.

>_>
<_<
mehbeh

No, not really :p
I was hoping to see some more interesting strange things that may suck but deserve at least an observance from the darkest depths of the OHRRPGCE's earlier times, truthfully. Maybe games that no one ever talks about, even. Like OHRadius. Which was a coo' spaceshooter. I guess I've just lurked around here too much and I just recognize the names of these games too easily. Though Sword of Jade is a relic that deserves a look at, for sure.

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dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x

This thread's the worst thanks for the advice!

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Super Walrus Land: Mouth Words Edition

make a discussion thread. choose a game you don't wanna talk about or believe can create discussion or be critiqued.

brilliant.

Hmmmm....

One game a week is way to fast for me. I can't keep up. I never did get time to play more Motrya so i could finish my comments there, and I can only comment here because I already played the game.

I think at first glance I was pretty sceptical of this game because of the greyscale palette.

After I started playing, the music drew me in immediately. I think all the music is pretty catchy, and some tracks make me laugh (repeatedly, as they loop!)

Now that I was drawn in I stopped caring about the lack of color.

This game is like a short-story game. Unlike many short games that feel unfinished, this one felt polished. I don't think one would be out of line to describe this as a "Joke Game" but as far as joke games go, this one stayed classy all the way through, which is noteworthy.

I thought the battles were pretty well balanced, and I appreciated the grinding-shark. I didn't take advantage of the feature that lets you skip battles, but I am curious to hear impressions form anyone who did.

The "Date" sequence really made me laugh. Actually, a lot of little things in this game made me laugh.

So... rather than examine the factors that actually made this game appealing to a relatively large audience, you take the opportunity to be transparently jealous of its success? Honestly. There's nothing to be learned here? Here, I'll start the discussion:

1) This game had a clear concept and execution. The story appealed to a broad audience and delivered a timely critique of the games-as-art debate. The visual aesthetic combined with the theme in a sensical, cohesive way.

2) The game mechanics were streamlined and refined. No random battles or grinding. The maps were not bloated, empty wastelands devoid of character. The battles themselves were thought-provoking and required strategy. Special moves were vital. Equipment was important.

3) The NPCs all had a point. Every character had, well, character. There were no palette swapped, useless dialog spewing, time wasting, place holders. This gave the game world life.

4) The game was COMPLETE. It was not half-assed. It was clearly planned out prior to development. This gave the game a logical flow with clear objectives and gave the player a sense of direction. Everything felt like it belonged and nothing felt like it was just tacked on for the hell of it.

5) The soundtrack kicked ass. Just had to throw that out there because I am not above stroking my own ego. (Download it here! For FREE!)

This game should be used as a blueprint for how to develop a successful OHR game. To say that there is nothing to discuss or analyze is beyond asinine. It managed to break out of this small, isolated community and garner recognition without any kind of mass promotion. To say that is strictly due to its spoofing of Citizen Kane is petty and dishonest. It totally discounts all of the hard work and care that went into the game and marginalizes the success it has earned.

The Kane connection and games as art connection are why a broader audience gave the game a shot but aren't the reason they enjoyed it. There's like three, four direct jokes related to Citizen Kane itself, out of dozens. So yeah I'd say that equals success on its own merits unless you actually think Citizen Kane the movie is about rap battles with snake monsters named after the seven deadly sins. It's ok to not like the game but if you've got issues with it try listing those! I'll listen! "it's popular, it shouldn't be, the end" isn't a review or critique or analysis, it's a belch. Step your game up bro, or if you don't want to actually discuss or play games and can't remember to make weekly threads get someone else to run the Weekly Game Discussion (it should be Giz)

Basically this

followed by this

is incoherent is useless.


Tldr C. Kane is no Arpugyuh.

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Super Walrus Land: Mouth Words Edition

I take it you haven't seen Citizen Kane, because this game is nothing like it.

Regardless MY opinion on it, I agree with the popular statement that it's stupid to have a discussion post and then say "this game can't be discussed or fixed."

Not to circle-jerk C Kane, but while I'll admit titling it "C Kane" might have helped with the marketability (a gimmick, so to speak), the fact that people who know nothing about the OHR gave it great reviews on the Android market (and gaming blogs felt compelled to share it after playing it) based around its gameplay and humor says enough about the quality of the game vs the gimmick.

Point being: it was the kind of thing that will only work once, Surlaw nailed it, and lots of people are jealous because he thought of it first. Oh, the huge manatees.

If you really do hate C Kane, give us the lowdown so we can discuss it. You're allowed to not like it; that's what having opinions is about, but just throwing a blanket "This game isn't good" isn't going to help in discussion.

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Luigi is almost as sexy as me!

C. Kane features the best morality system I've seen in a game.

Also, please keep this in mind:



Provide actual actionable feedback if you want to participate in these discussions.

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Mega Tact v1.1
Super Penguin Chef
Wizard Blocks

Wow! This is finally the book club I was expecting! Lemme grab a folding chair and join in here...



In Spoonweaver's defense he solicited IRC for suggestions. It might be a coincidence, but so far his list looks a lot like what we suggested. Personally, I think starting a discussion of a game you don't understand is better on Spoonweaver's part than just pretending it doesn't exist. For better or for worse, he's started debate and that's what the thread is about.



Piling on with what everyone else, there's no reason to post this sentence unless you're wanting to start a fight. If you think C. Kane is terrible then that's a position you can present and defend, that's what this thread is supposed to be about. By saying nice things about it and then adding "PS: I was fooling" you're guaranteeing the kind of confrontation that derails any actual meaning to these threads. Maybe we can start another thread for trolling and poop-throwing.







This is equally detrimental to the thread. Accusing Spoonweaver of jealousy implies that you believe this game is perfect, that there are no valid criticisms of it. I realize Spoony's post was pretty lacking in substance, but by challenging his motive rather than his opinion you're making it scary for anyone to go against the popular consensus and furthering the confrontation rather than a constructive discussion.





That's good advice.

Spoonweaver and I have argued about C. Kane before and I might get mixed up, so don't be alarmed if I start trying to counter arguments he hasn't made yet. There's no denying the publicity this game has received and there is a lot to be envious of in that department. This is the level of success we're all hoping for and I think it's very useful to figure out the how's and why's.

I've heard it suggested that the only reason C. Kane was so successful is because Citizen Kane is so highly regarded as a movie. I agree with Shadowiii in that I think the name C. Kane and the RPG Remake of the "greatest movie ever made" gimmick help get the game's foot in the door, but without substance to back it up there would NOT be this level of interest. For comparison, how many of the following big name related OHR titles have garnered ANY level of publicity?

Gizmog's The Human Centipede RPG
thespazztikone's Doom: Evil Unleashed
SDHawk's Final Fantasi XXX
Pokemanster's Cars
RMSephy's Labyrinth
JSH's Metal Gear Duck
Skullduggery Studios' The HangovOHR
JSH's Harry Potter Trilogy
RedMaverickZero's Batman and Robin
Surlaw's Village People RPG
Spoonweaver's Star Wars: An OHR Hope

Strangely, the only oen that I remember getting any outside attention was Village People. I wonder what the connection is?

Could it be a good gimmick to get the foot in the door, followed by a stylish and well-designed game?

I really want to play the game again before I go too deep into commentary on it but the main thing I remember, and this ties into 8bit's point 1 and 2, is that the game was consistent. It knew what its strengths were and it played 100% into them.

The inventory wasn't very deep but it didn't need to be deep because the battles were more about strategy than about fighting a million pointless monsters to pursue a constant string of one night stands with marginally improved weaponry.

The black and white graphics might not be the fanciest in the world, but they help set a certain mood and tone that makes you better able to focus on the dialogue and the characters. They also are all consistent in style and pleasing to look at. It's a fun game to look at, it reminds me of those super old cartoons.

A lot of games have a good joke, and then they slip any shitty game underneath it. Some other games are a good game with shitty jokes stinkin it up. C. Kane is the perfect ensemble: The game is good, but it isn't so complicated you can't relax and enjoy the joke. Likewise, the jokes are good but they aren't so... jokey that you can't enjoy the story or the rest of the game.

I wouldn't say it's the perfect game, there's always things you could add or touch up, but the mark of a good artist is knowing when to stop. In my opinion, C. Kane is exactly what the artist wanted it to be and I think that's why it feels so good as a whole. There's a lot to be said for the way the dungeons were laid out so simply and how that created a sense of progress.

This is the type of jealousy I was talking about. Didn't mean to imply that I thought the game was perfect. But point taken as far as advancing the discussion goes. I just found it frustrating that this thread was initiated in such a dip-shitted manner because...



Surlaw has been honing his game-making skills for a very long time. C Kane is his most refined effort to date. To imply that its success is undeserved or due to something other than hard work and effective implementation misses the whole point of these threads.

On the other hand, "effective implementation" alone does not usually cause Jason Rohrer to post an article on Kotaku about your game.

I think this is a point of frustration for some people. Widespread success involves luck, nearly always. Do some reading about survivorship bias -- there is usually very little difference between the nineteen businesses that failed and the one that didn't. C. Kane is a good game, but so are a lot of other games that didn't get as much attention. Don't count on getting namedropped on a major gaming news outlet, even if your game is twice as polished. Don't begrudge the game for its success, either, though.

I've been thinking a lot about marketing lately. It's not a secret that we have a fairly insular community, and I don't know of too many people that have tried to get attention for their games outside of the community. The most notable examples I can think of are Ends of the Earth and Fat Frog, and those games are ancient. We could have a good discussion on marketing (in another thread), although my gut instinct is that none of us is really experienced in it. Getting large-scale publicity for your game is something you should consider if you ever plan on releasing a published title, though.

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Mega Tact v1.1
Super Penguin Chef
Wizard Blocks

In spite of having no mainstream coverage and not even trying to promote it to anyone and barely being a game, Horse Game has about four times as many downloads on Android as Kane. Being free helps but the market is very strange about what it picks up. Walthros Android is a total bomb, in comparison.

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Super Walrus Land: Mouth Words Edition