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So I have never liked JRPG style battle systems much. But my concern is with making a game, and trying to work with what limits I have.
I'm fine learning to plotscript some of my systems, but I think a battle system is way too complex for me to start on if my focus is to make a game.
Instead I'm trying to come up with creative solutions to get rid of all of the problems I have. I've figured out good ways to restrict and remove random encounters, and a system that entirely removes level grinding in favor of a more involved skill learning system instead.
I'm very happy with the direction I'm heading, but have spent a week now stumped with how to make the default battle system into something I can feel inspired with.
I've decided to try and approach battles like puzzles. Keep in mind that although it seems like my focus is on realism, it's not. I'm trying to make a unique system that gives you some different options on how to approach fights, and makes you think a little harder.
My idea right now (which I'm currently prototyping... and not really sure how I feel about yet) is to make head, body, arms, legs into separate elements. Now each weapon has a preferred part of the body to attack. One handed swords go for the head, daggers and the like attack arms, and big heavy weapons attack the body and/or legs. If an enemy is pictured as wearing armour on one of these parts, you can bet that they will have higher resistance against certain types of weapons. Not only that, but each type of armour will have a different dodge formula. For the head it is the magic and willpower formula, your arms and legs are tied to dodge and your torso to defense.
This is where my separate inventory screen will (maybe) come in handy. I plan to give *you* resistances with armor (something I couldn't seem to get working with the default equip screen) and in the case of boots, gauntlets, and shields, abilities to give some stat penalties. I wish I could wear away elemental resistances too, but I can't seem to find a way to do this.
Take this scenario:
You have a short sword and a pair of gauntlets. Your attacker has a heavy helmet and a long sword. He has resistance to your default attack, but you will also have a harder time hitting him. In this system I would let you use gauntlets as an item to punch his helmet, giving him a temporary penalty to his dodge and allowing you to hit him.
Of course you also have skills, which allow you to perform delayed attacks, and Songs (my version of magic) which give you temporary stat boosts and interrupt chains.
How can I improve a system like this? Am I overlooking things? Is there anything that you can think of a better way of doing. Help me come up with my battle system!
Conceptualizing A Battle System
Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:43 pm 
Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:42 pm
Will battles typically be one-on-one? If not, I can see this becoming unwieldy very quickly, and not particularly fun. Battles in an RPG are tied to the idea of inputting commands, which your character performs for you. In my opinion, this doesn't lend itself well to micromanaging things like what body part to hit with what aspect of your own weaponry. It feels tedious to do this over and over with multiple characters. In one-on-one battles, perhaps this could be cool. But I'd still prefer a handful of characters and my inputting to involve what feels like actually giving commands (you heal him, you beat on that slime, you cast that badass spell).
I am Srime
I am Srime
Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:56 am
Hey, thanks for replying! Battles will typically be on on one, or two on two, or two on one. Smaller anyways.
One thing I didn't mention is how I want a battle system to feel. I'd like it to be hard as nails, I'd like it to get my heart pumping and to keep me constantly thinking of what to do. I want you to have to think of when to engage your enemy, where to do it, what character with and what weapon to use before you even approach them. I want battles to move at a fast pace. My favorite RPGs of all time were the Infinity Engine ones, Demon's Souls, a few different roguelikes, and the Mother series.
You'll notice in my post that I mentioned I don't like JRPG battle systems, hence trying to do something more radical with it. I know it's a strange choice of game engine for someone who doesn't prefer the style of the default battle engine, but maybe I can learn to compromise. I like the idea of working within limits and squeezing out something I can be proud of.
I'd kind of like to steer this thread away from classifying things as "fun" or "not-fun." I'd prefer an explanation of why you feel that way, because there's more to gain from that, even if I don't agree (the "beat on slime, cast bad-ass spell" thing kind of makes me groan.)
There's a few things I also feel like I need to clarify. One of my issues with these old kind of JRPG's is too many random encounters. My game has gutted those completely. There are a couple scenarios where there are similar sorts of situations, but you are given the means to steer clear of them, and will be rewarded better for doing so. So you won't actually be fighting battles over and over.
The second point I'd like to make is I'm giving you the whole thing all at once which makes it feel nauseating, and super unwieldy. Each of these details would actually be introduced slowly over the course of the game to try and keep it challenging and give it more depth.
The last point I want to make is that... my gut instinct right now is to agree with you. It does seem like micromanaging and it doesn't sound inherently fun. The prototype battles I've done have been kind of grueling and although they've been as challenging as I want there's clearly something missing, or some ideas that need to be reworked or scrapped, or SOMETHING. That's why this thread exists!
Let's talk about combinations of things that are underused, or overused, or just not done enough. Give me some examples. Explain why you like what you like!
One thing I didn't mention is how I want a battle system to feel. I'd like it to be hard as nails, I'd like it to get my heart pumping and to keep me constantly thinking of what to do. I want you to have to think of when to engage your enemy, where to do it, what character with and what weapon to use before you even approach them. I want battles to move at a fast pace. My favorite RPGs of all time were the Infinity Engine ones, Demon's Souls, a few different roguelikes, and the Mother series.
You'll notice in my post that I mentioned I don't like JRPG battle systems, hence trying to do something more radical with it. I know it's a strange choice of game engine for someone who doesn't prefer the style of the default battle engine, but maybe I can learn to compromise. I like the idea of working within limits and squeezing out something I can be proud of.
I'd kind of like to steer this thread away from classifying things as "fun" or "not-fun." I'd prefer an explanation of why you feel that way, because there's more to gain from that, even if I don't agree (the "beat on slime, cast bad-ass spell" thing kind of makes me groan.)
There's a few things I also feel like I need to clarify. One of my issues with these old kind of JRPG's is too many random encounters. My game has gutted those completely. There are a couple scenarios where there are similar sorts of situations, but you are given the means to steer clear of them, and will be rewarded better for doing so. So you won't actually be fighting battles over and over.
The second point I'd like to make is I'm giving you the whole thing all at once which makes it feel nauseating, and super unwieldy. Each of these details would actually be introduced slowly over the course of the game to try and keep it challenging and give it more depth.
The last point I want to make is that... my gut instinct right now is to agree with you. It does seem like micromanaging and it doesn't sound inherently fun. The prototype battles I've done have been kind of grueling and although they've been as challenging as I want there's clearly something missing, or some ideas that need to be reworked or scrapped, or SOMETHING. That's why this thread exists!
Let's talk about combinations of things that are underused, or overused, or just not done enough. Give me some examples. Explain why you like what you like!
Sat Apr 06, 2013 3:41 am
I tried to explain why I feel this way in the first post. An RPG battle system is inherently tied to the idea of inputting commands substituting for actual 'fighting'. That's a large part of what separates the genre from, say, adventure games like the Zelda games, or something like Secret of Mana. Fighting becomes more about tactics (and/or resource management, although it sounds like you're looking to avoid that aspect) and less about physical reflexes. If I wanted a game about physical reflexes and/or the physical aspects of fighting (what to aim for, blocking on reflex, etc) I'd avoid an RPG battle engine altogether. The idea of inputting these things from a menu creates too large a disconnect for my taste.
On the other hand, the idea of commanding my characters to take certain actions, and then letting them go ahead and do it, feels much closer in spirit to what I'm actually doing - that is, selecting choices from a menu. The details of how the action is physically carried out are irrelevant, and I prefer it that way. In an RPG, damage is damage; all win-loss conditions are tied to numbers. Choosing who should cause damage versus who should repair damage versus who should alter the playing field (buffs, etc) is more interesting to me than choosing the correct physical details of attacking that will maximize damage.
I guess what I'm saying in a nutshell is that selecting details from a menu 'feels' a lot more tedious to me than selecting commands. But in truth, both situations can become tedious. That's why I first asked about the frequency of battles, and the number of participants. Lots of battles with lots of details to keep track of and/or lots of 'in-battle-puzzles' to solve feels tedious to me regardless of whether the details involve physical aspects like what part of the body to aim for, or tactical aspects like what spells to use.
Of course, you should take my opinions with a grain of salt. I'm also the slime who considers the MarioRPG battles to be some of the most tedious, least entertaining battles in any RPG I've played. I also generally dislike puzzle games that aren't multiplayer. Thus the idea of making each single battle feel more like a 'puzzle' than a 'battle' turns me off, even though I'll admit that an RPG battle engine does lend itself to this approach.
I am Srime
On the other hand, the idea of commanding my characters to take certain actions, and then letting them go ahead and do it, feels much closer in spirit to what I'm actually doing - that is, selecting choices from a menu. The details of how the action is physically carried out are irrelevant, and I prefer it that way. In an RPG, damage is damage; all win-loss conditions are tied to numbers. Choosing who should cause damage versus who should repair damage versus who should alter the playing field (buffs, etc) is more interesting to me than choosing the correct physical details of attacking that will maximize damage.
I guess what I'm saying in a nutshell is that selecting details from a menu 'feels' a lot more tedious to me than selecting commands. But in truth, both situations can become tedious. That's why I first asked about the frequency of battles, and the number of participants. Lots of battles with lots of details to keep track of and/or lots of 'in-battle-puzzles' to solve feels tedious to me regardless of whether the details involve physical aspects like what part of the body to aim for, or tactical aspects like what spells to use.
Of course, you should take my opinions with a grain of salt. I'm also the slime who considers the MarioRPG battles to be some of the most tedious, least entertaining battles in any RPG I've played. I also generally dislike puzzle games that aren't multiplayer. Thus the idea of making each single battle feel more like a 'puzzle' than a 'battle' turns me off, even though I'll admit that an RPG battle engine does lend itself to this approach.
I am Srime
Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:51 am
Sorry, reading my post again now it sounds like some of the things I said were maybe pointed at you, but I actually didn't mean to do that (posted at midnight after work.)I felt like I didn't clarify a lot of things enough in my initial post, despite it being overly verbose, so a lot of it was just to give some more detail.
I should clarify this is the using the default battle system. There is no reflexes involved, and no aiming. Certain weapons default to attacking certain ways. Weapons are only able to have one weapon attack. Enemies that clearly have armour on that part of the body will block it. There is a slight way to counter this (by choosing one item on the item menu.) I think I may have just made the whole thing sound overly convoluted than it really is.
I did turn the speed up in the battles, but since I have them set to turn-based I realized this is actually pretty silly.
You bring up an interesting point with resource management, to be honest I'd just not thought of it at all. That does open up some other possibilities now that I think about it (just the sort of thing I'm looking for)
I should clarify this is the using the default battle system. There is no reflexes involved, and no aiming. Certain weapons default to attacking certain ways. Weapons are only able to have one weapon attack. Enemies that clearly have armour on that part of the body will block it. There is a slight way to counter this (by choosing one item on the item menu.) I think I may have just made the whole thing sound overly convoluted than it really is.
I did turn the speed up in the battles, but since I have them set to turn-based I realized this is actually pretty silly.
You bring up an interesting point with resource management, to be honest I'd just not thought of it at all. That does open up some other possibilities now that I think about it (just the sort of thing I'm looking for)
Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:47 am
I thought about resource management and decided on a way to implement it to make battles a bit more interesting in my game. Because I was able to do this, I took some of the things I posted about above out. I've found a balance that I'm happy with. It feels "right" now.
My main character basically regenerates MP. After 3 consecutive turns of not using a special ability they will start to get some every turn. If they use an ability it breaks this and you have to wait another 3 turns.
I'm thinking of other classes with this combination... A knight whose defense goes up each turn, but their attack slowly goes down. At a certain amount of defense they can drain all of that stat to do a massive attack but they will be rendered defenseless for a few turns (and need to be protected by others.)
Who knows if that will make it in, but it is kind of fun this way. I've left the body parts as elements part in, but taken out the part about each normal attack altering stats.
My main character basically regenerates MP. After 3 consecutive turns of not using a special ability they will start to get some every turn. If they use an ability it breaks this and you have to wait another 3 turns.
I'm thinking of other classes with this combination... A knight whose defense goes up each turn, but their attack slowly goes down. At a certain amount of defense they can drain all of that stat to do a massive attack but they will be rendered defenseless for a few turns (and need to be protected by others.)
Who knows if that will make it in, but it is kind of fun this way. I've left the body parts as elements part in, but taken out the part about each normal attack altering stats.