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The default system for running from battles is incredibly crappy. I consider it for-backcompat-only, and want to replace it with something better for new games.
It is already possible to roll your own running system using attacks that have the "Force Heroes to Run Away" bitset turned on, but that isn't very easy or obvious.
Does anybody have any suggestions for what a better running-away system might look like?
What is the perfect running-away for YOUR game?
A better system for running from battle
Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:10 pm 
Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:29 pm
Well, what most people end up wanting is a command for running right under the item command. I think giving it a set 50% chance of succeeding would work, but making the chance custom would be best.
Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:56 pm
WARNING: Rambling to follow!
This is all probably too complicated to implement, but to summarize what I think would be interesting possibilities:
1. Conditional enemy attempted retreat. The conditions could be stat comparisons (Nerds are afraid of tough guys), equipment checks (The criminal runs from you if you're wearing a police badge), or the current lackey runs away when the boss is dead kind of thing. Ideally, this retreat would be handled the same way it is for the player, where their animation turns the other way and you know they're trying to run.
2. Running away affecting stats. It should be possible to make running away a riskier proposition than it is now. Either by lowering your ability to defend against blows, increasing your chance to dodge blows, or making it difficult if not impossible for the player to land attacks of their own while trying to flee. All of this would be possible with simple stat modifiers, and all of it could affect enemies the same as it does you.
3. Running away having possible outcomes. Running away could have effects beyond simple stats. We've all seen movies where someone tries to run away from a monster and trips over a tree branch and ends up worse off than if they'd just tried to sucker punch the dude. Likewise we've all seen movies where a retreating character loses their hat or drops their gun in panic. Having a roulette or lottery system of possible outcomes for an attempted retreat could open a lot of interesting avenues.
The player could escape scott-free, the player could escape but lose money, could just lose money, could screw up and lose their ability to flee from that encounter, etc. Playing with this could probably also let the player control just how long you have to try to run away before running away actually works. Being able to play with this on a by formation basis would be especially useful, and doubly so if you could have a different set of outcomes for different kinds of retreat spells.
4. Conditional player retreat. Like with the AI, this could be affected by stats or by items. If your opponent's speed stat is higher than yours, escape could be more difficult or impossible. If your enemy has the paralysis status effect escape could be trivial. Maybe your thief is wearing the coward's badge and can always run away. Maybe your wizard is a slowpoke and gets left behind when the faster characters retreat.
5. Retreating affecting player/monster behaviors. It should be possible for monsters to behave differently when the player is trying to retreat. Some monsters might simply taunt you as you go, and others should try to use their most damaging attacks to finish you off. The player might also try to pick off retreating monsters for EXP and items. As an extension of this, it would be interesting if plotscripting could detect whether a battle had ended in monster defeat, player defeat, monster retreat, player retreat or mutual retreat.
Again, these are just the ramblings of a madman. I'm unlikely to be making a game anytime soon, so these are just like "Best case dream-world" suggestions.
This is all probably too complicated to implement, but to summarize what I think would be interesting possibilities:
1. Conditional enemy attempted retreat. The conditions could be stat comparisons (Nerds are afraid of tough guys), equipment checks (The criminal runs from you if you're wearing a police badge), or the current lackey runs away when the boss is dead kind of thing. Ideally, this retreat would be handled the same way it is for the player, where their animation turns the other way and you know they're trying to run.
2. Running away affecting stats. It should be possible to make running away a riskier proposition than it is now. Either by lowering your ability to defend against blows, increasing your chance to dodge blows, or making it difficult if not impossible for the player to land attacks of their own while trying to flee. All of this would be possible with simple stat modifiers, and all of it could affect enemies the same as it does you.
3. Running away having possible outcomes. Running away could have effects beyond simple stats. We've all seen movies where someone tries to run away from a monster and trips over a tree branch and ends up worse off than if they'd just tried to sucker punch the dude. Likewise we've all seen movies where a retreating character loses their hat or drops their gun in panic. Having a roulette or lottery system of possible outcomes for an attempted retreat could open a lot of interesting avenues.
The player could escape scott-free, the player could escape but lose money, could just lose money, could screw up and lose their ability to flee from that encounter, etc. Playing with this could probably also let the player control just how long you have to try to run away before running away actually works. Being able to play with this on a by formation basis would be especially useful, and doubly so if you could have a different set of outcomes for different kinds of retreat spells.
4. Conditional player retreat. Like with the AI, this could be affected by stats or by items. If your opponent's speed stat is higher than yours, escape could be more difficult or impossible. If your enemy has the paralysis status effect escape could be trivial. Maybe your thief is wearing the coward's badge and can always run away. Maybe your wizard is a slowpoke and gets left behind when the faster characters retreat.
5. Retreating affecting player/monster behaviors. It should be possible for monsters to behave differently when the player is trying to retreat. Some monsters might simply taunt you as you go, and others should try to use their most damaging attacks to finish you off. The player might also try to pick off retreating monsters for EXP and items. As an extension of this, it would be interesting if plotscripting could detect whether a battle had ended in monster defeat, player defeat, monster retreat, player retreat or mutual retreat.
Again, these are just the ramblings of a madman. I'm unlikely to be making a game anytime soon, so these are just like "Best case dream-world" suggestions.
Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:57 pm
If we do end up with a better run option natively added to the menu, it ought to be optional of course, also for the sake of backwards compatibility. If we had such a thing, I think it would be most useful if it was possible to make it as simple or complex as one likes. For instance, maybe it could be a "works x% of the time" as Spoonweaver says, or something more complex like "if stat x is >y and <z, work n% of the time".
Right now, my running system uses a spell list set to random effects, with only one spell in the list. That one spell chains into a tree that hits you with a "make heroes run away" attack that gets more and more accurate the higher your DEX stat is. So it's basically an approximation of that second functionality I described above.
SPELLSHARD: THE BLACK CROWN OF HORGOTH now COMPLETE! Grab it today!
Right now, my running system uses a spell list set to random effects, with only one spell in the list. That one spell chains into a tree that hits you with a "make heroes run away" attack that gets more and more accurate the higher your DEX stat is. So it's basically an approximation of that second functionality I described above.
SPELLSHARD: THE BLACK CROWN OF HORGOTH now COMPLETE! Grab it today!
Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:26 pm
How does running work in most JRPGs today? It's pretty terrible in almost all of the ones that I've played, which is unfortunate because I mostly run from fights.
Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:56 am
Well, I suppose I've been spoiled by Ultima games from VI and up, but I've always enjoyed having the enemies on screen actually chasing my sorry behind around the dungeon as I run crying like a little girl from the lich about to create Avatar flambe. On the other hand, that's not really applicable to JRPGs as the OHR is more suited to, though an improved Chase Me bitset for NPCs could facilitate that more nicely.
As for fleeing, I don't think it's that bad as is, it's pretty much how a lot of fleeing works in many of the games I've played. It would be interesting though to have the option to add a plotscript to something like, "On flee plotscript" that would trigger after the battle has been fled. That would allow people to do something like:
Or something like that. That would allow people to set arbitrary consequences to fleeing as they see fit.
...
On the other hand, I suppose that doesn't quite address how fleeing per se works, but rather it deals with the consequences of fleeing...
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
As for fleeing, I don't think it's that bad as is, it's pretty much how a lot of fleeing works in many of the games I've played. It would be interesting though to have the option to add a plotscript to something like, "On flee plotscript" that would trigger after the battle has been fled. That would allow people to do something like:
Code:
IF FledFromBattle == TRUE THEN
HERO STRENGTH -= 5
ENEMY FREQUENCY += 2%
END
IF FledFromBattle == TRUE THEN
HERO STRENGTH -= 5
ENEMY FREQUENCY += 2%
END
Or something like that. That would allow people to set arbitrary consequences to fleeing as they see fit.
...
On the other hand, I suppose that doesn't quite address how fleeing per se works, but rather it deals with the consequences of fleeing...
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:12 pm
Thanks for all the ideas so far, keep them coming :)
As for scripts that detect if you ran away, that is already possible with the after battle script
As for scripts that detect if you ran away, that is already possible with the after battle script
Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:22 pm
Bob the Hamster wrote:
As for scripts that detect if you ran away, that is already possible with the after battle script
Is it now? Hmm, then that means I have some studying to do.
To the dictionary!
EDIT: Heh, how did I not know about this before? The possibilities are endless now, mwahahaha!
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:14 pm
On semi-related note, is Beelzebufo coming out soonish?
I pretty much agree with spoonweaver on the running away, I was actually planning on making a menu choice of running in such a fashion for the next version of AR-PUH-GUH! so as to remove the ability to just hold esc and flee from any battle, being able to worm your way anywhere without much chance of even getting scratched.
However, in terms of customizability, you could have a global set rate for default but have the ability to allow individual monster run rate, likely determinable through the fight formation rather than a monster stat.
Or you could have some custom way of being able to choose stat vs stat, like if your foe's agility is 37 and yours is 78 then you get X% chance to run, whether it's a calculation such as
Though I wouldn't suggest taking out the ability to allow holding esc to flee all together, as some people may actually prefer it as it resembles some final fantasy type of battles such as 7s or 6s.
The reason I started with the Beelzebufo question is that if you ARE going to release it soon, and if you're going to include this newer way of enabling fleeing from battle, then I will hold off on starting my new version of AR-PUH-GUH! until this is out, even if it's a month or month and a half wait. It'll be worth it.
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x
I pretty much agree with spoonweaver on the running away, I was actually planning on making a menu choice of running in such a fashion for the next version of AR-PUH-GUH! so as to remove the ability to just hold esc and flee from any battle, being able to worm your way anywhere without much chance of even getting scratched.
However, in terms of customizability, you could have a global set rate for default but have the ability to allow individual monster run rate, likely determinable through the fight formation rather than a monster stat.
Or you could have some custom way of being able to choose stat vs stat, like if your foe's agility is 37 and yours is 78 then you get X% chance to run, whether it's a calculation such as
Code:
, or something.
((your agl) * 3 - (foe agl))%
Though I wouldn't suggest taking out the ability to allow holding esc to flee all together, as some people may actually prefer it as it resembles some final fantasy type of battles such as 7s or 6s.
The reason I started with the Beelzebufo question is that if you ARE going to release it soon, and if you're going to include this newer way of enabling fleeing from battle, then I will hold off on starting my new version of AR-PUH-GUH! until this is out, even if it's a month or month and a half wait. It'll be worth it.
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x
Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:24 pm
Meowskivich wrote:
being able to worm your way anywhere without much chance of even getting scratched.
Well, this is how I play Final Fantasy. I don't think I would like it as much if I couldn't do this. You can always use mandatory bosses as a check for this. But it depends on what you're trying to do with the game.
Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:33 pm
That's true, but without some EXP or item checking shenanigans, you can't see if the enemy or enemies ran away from you instead of you running from them. That's not necessarily a bad thing, because I can't think of a whole lot that it'd be useful, outside of like... pokemon games where they want to let Ash get really steamed that Abra keeps using teleport.