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Sorry can't agree with the idea that the prequels showcase some sort of tragedy either with the failings of the Republic/Jedi OR the brokenness of Padme-Anakin. Maybe the RedLetterMedia guys have won me over too hard, but I think even Surlaw points out the main problem - tragedy requires some sort of sympathy for the victim. But even when Padme sees the plot unfold, she doesn't realize she was part of the problem. Nobody in the either the Republic or the Jedi Council makes note of the fact that they screwed up. So whether or not the 'point' of the story was that they screwed up, it's impossible for me to feel sorry for them because they were STUPID. As in, it's not portrayed that they realized they might be adding to the corruption, and/or failed through any worthwhile character flaws. It's portrayed as though they're NOT AWARE. And that's not sympathetic, that's just pathetic.
The Padme-Anakin thing is kinda similar I guess. It's hard to feel much sympathy for Anakin when the only time he seemed like a halfway decent person, he was played by a terrible child actor. Then there's just so much stupid involved in the whole 'romance', whether its the entire setup (why send Anakin on this assignment at all?), the terrible terrible dialog, the complete lack of any believable progression (if he was supposed to have idealized her in his mind as some kind of surrogate mother lover, this should have been clearer; instead, he sees her for the first time in however long and can't believe how hot she is), the continual nonsense (are Senators not allowed to date? does going into hiding mean going out and about at the one place you belong?), ...
I mean, I could go on. But I'm sure you've all read all of this before. My point is that the relationship is broken, but not in a way that feels tragic to me, because so little of it feels believable. And instead of any worthwhile time spent on either the good character traits that were lost because of this, or the character flaws that caused this, we get no worthwhile character time spent with either of them and instead get a bunch of scenes exemplifying how wrong they are together.
I'm totally down to talk about the new movie too, if folks have seen it!
I am Srime
Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:16 am 
Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:01 am
Seeing everyone as pathetic failures who deserved to get clowned also works, and it turns Palpatine into the protagonist, or at the very least, the audience identification character. And he certainly has more fun in these movies than anyone else! It's not as effective of a villain-protagonist murder-romp as something like Richard III but I think that can still work too.
I'm actually writing about the new movie now, will post a link when done.
Super Walrus Land: Mouth Words Edition
I'm actually writing about the new movie now, will post a link when done.
Super Walrus Land: Mouth Words Edition
Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:55 am
"And he certainly has more fun in these movies than anyone else!"
Can't argue with that! And can't wait to read your thoughts on the new guy!
I am Srime
Can't argue with that! And can't wait to read your thoughts on the new guy!
I am Srime
Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:36 am
Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Enjoy, this one's a stupid long article with typos I'll fix tomorrow when I'm more awake.
Super Walrus Land: Mouth Words Edition
Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:26 am
Just got back from taking my parents to see it (second viewing for me).
Agree with a lot of what Surlaw says. I'm not sure I buy the whole "both sides addicted to war which is bad, no difference Dark vs Light" idea, but it's intriguing and I wouldn't be angry if that does turn out to be what these new films are getting at. I DO agree that Luke wanted to be done, and I do hope he never fights another battle. I think he'll be reluctant to train Rey, but will eventually be forced to do so.
Anyways, I love the film like everyone else. Tons of fun, makes me want to be a kid again and pretend my grandfather's old garage is the Millenium Falcon again. Super fast-paced, better overall acting than any of the previous films, and found a place to keep the trashcan man in.
I also agree with some of Surlaw's handful of minor complaints - the "stumbles recreating classic scenes" paragraph in particular. The new cantina song just can't compete with the original, sadly enough. I'd only add a couple more serious complaints. I could get behind Finn's "I just want to run away" deal, but like almost all of the big action movies lately, I hated it when this lasted like five minutes. And then he sees the big laser, and that's apparently what makes him decide to turn back...?? What? Seriously, if I was running away because I was scared of the New Order, and then I looked up and saw that laser, I would've paid those dudes to leave early, like RIGHT NOW. Contrast this scene with the "Luke sees his dead aunt and uncle" scene from IV, and you'll see why part of me wants to claim I still prefer IV to VII regardless of originality.
The other complaint would be a couple utterly pointless action sequences - the monster chase scene in Solo's freighter, and Finn fighting the storm trooper with the light saber. These were the only moments I teetered on the edge of boredom and/or unpleasant memories of prequel flaws.
Something that I'll add to Surlaw's comments is the great sense of humor. The majority (not quite all) of the comedic bits really worked for me. The originals had some great humor too, but I think this might be the most I've laughed (in a good way) in a Star Wars film. Which makes me want to bump this past IV and be 2nd only to V.
I am Srime
Agree with a lot of what Surlaw says. I'm not sure I buy the whole "both sides addicted to war which is bad, no difference Dark vs Light" idea, but it's intriguing and I wouldn't be angry if that does turn out to be what these new films are getting at. I DO agree that Luke wanted to be done, and I do hope he never fights another battle. I think he'll be reluctant to train Rey, but will eventually be forced to do so.
Anyways, I love the film like everyone else. Tons of fun, makes me want to be a kid again and pretend my grandfather's old garage is the Millenium Falcon again. Super fast-paced, better overall acting than any of the previous films, and found a place to keep the trashcan man in.
I also agree with some of Surlaw's handful of minor complaints - the "stumbles recreating classic scenes" paragraph in particular. The new cantina song just can't compete with the original, sadly enough. I'd only add a couple more serious complaints. I could get behind Finn's "I just want to run away" deal, but like almost all of the big action movies lately, I hated it when this lasted like five minutes. And then he sees the big laser, and that's apparently what makes him decide to turn back...?? What? Seriously, if I was running away because I was scared of the New Order, and then I looked up and saw that laser, I would've paid those dudes to leave early, like RIGHT NOW. Contrast this scene with the "Luke sees his dead aunt and uncle" scene from IV, and you'll see why part of me wants to claim I still prefer IV to VII regardless of originality.
The other complaint would be a couple utterly pointless action sequences - the monster chase scene in Solo's freighter, and Finn fighting the storm trooper with the light saber. These were the only moments I teetered on the edge of boredom and/or unpleasant memories of prequel flaws.
Something that I'll add to Surlaw's comments is the great sense of humor. The majority (not quite all) of the comedic bits really worked for me. The originals had some great humor too, but I think this might be the most I've laughed (in a good way) in a Star Wars film. Which makes me want to bump this past IV and be 2nd only to V.
I am Srime
Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:23 am
I think it would have made a better, or at least more personal, action scene if the Stormtrooper Finn fought had been Phasma herself instead of just a random schmoe. It's a good scene for establishing that Stormtroopers do have some degree of hand to hand combat training, but it's very weirdly executed.
Super Walrus Land: Mouth Words Edition
Super Walrus Land: Mouth Words Edition
Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:55 am
Yeah a buddy of mine said the same thing, but we agreed it would have been nice if it didn't feel like it came out of nowhere. Like, say, showing some of the storm troopers using those energy things earlier, maybe in the first sequence while herding the prisoners into that central area.
Speaking of storm troopers, my dad went online and says he saw that the storm trooper who got Jedi-mind-tricked was Daniel Craig! Great scene, and good thing the only storm trooper who can aim a gun lost his weapon.
I am Srime
Speaking of storm troopers, my dad went online and says he saw that the storm trooper who got Jedi-mind-tricked was Daniel Craig! Great scene, and good thing the only storm trooper who can aim a gun lost his weapon.
I am Srime
Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:51 am
msw188 wrote:
The other complaint would be a couple utterly pointless action sequences - the monster chase scene in Solo's freighter, and Finn fighting the storm trooper with the light saber. These were the only moments I teetered on the edge of boredom and/or unpleasant memories of prequel flaws.
The other complaint would be a couple utterly pointless action sequences - the monster chase scene in Solo's freighter, and Finn fighting the storm trooper with the light saber. These were the only moments I teetered on the edge of boredom and/or unpleasant memories of prequel flaws.
It's weird you bring that up, when Empire Strikes Back had maybe THE most pointless action sequence in the entire series: The giant worm in the asteroid scene. I think it's even more pointless when you consider half the damn movie is the Millenium Falcon being chased by something and "Is the hyper-drive still broken?!" "Yes." Dunno why everyone always says it's their favorite.
Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:57 pm
Gizmog:
Nah, I disagree. In Empire, the hyperdrive being broken is a plot device, but it's an important one. Otherwise the good guys can just escape (notice nobody else had much trouble escaping from what we can see). The time in the asteroid gives the Han-Leia relationship time to actually grow a bit. The giant worm thing forces them to leave before they can fix the ship, so they can get chased some more and Han can prove to Leia (and us) that he's actually pretty clever. Plot device-y maybe, but not pointless in my opinion.
On the other hand, the tentacle monster thing felt like it came out of nowhere. I guess it gives Rey a chance to save Finn, and new viewers a chance to see that Han mostly flies by the seat of his pants. The Finn - stormtrooper fight bothers me more in the same way the prequels did - why do bad guys suddenly have these weapons that can fight a light saber? Do they all have them?
These are not gamebreakers for me by any stretch of the imagination, just some small things I didn't like.
I am Srime
Nah, I disagree. In Empire, the hyperdrive being broken is a plot device, but it's an important one. Otherwise the good guys can just escape (notice nobody else had much trouble escaping from what we can see). The time in the asteroid gives the Han-Leia relationship time to actually grow a bit. The giant worm thing forces them to leave before they can fix the ship, so they can get chased some more and Han can prove to Leia (and us) that he's actually pretty clever. Plot device-y maybe, but not pointless in my opinion.
On the other hand, the tentacle monster thing felt like it came out of nowhere. I guess it gives Rey a chance to save Finn, and new viewers a chance to see that Han mostly flies by the seat of his pants. The Finn - stormtrooper fight bothers me more in the same way the prequels did - why do bad guys suddenly have these weapons that can fight a light saber? Do they all have them?
These are not gamebreakers for me by any stretch of the imagination, just some small things I didn't like.
I am Srime
Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:43 pm
Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:45 am
On Empire: I think the Han/Leia romance is pretty terrible in general and the weakest part of the film, and the asteroid escape does serve a purpose but isn't really very interesting. I love the film for how ridiculously well shot the cinematography is on Hoth/Degobah/in the fight with Vader, and it's admirable in how bleak it can get while never feeling hopeless. But the romance has always been pretty unbelievable in Star Wars, and when people criticize it in the prequels I can't help but remember how awkward it is in the first three too. But Han's "I know" is still a good, well delivered line.
Their relationship in the new episode is way more human.
Super Walrus Land: Mouth Words Edition
Their relationship in the new episode is way more human.
Super Walrus Land: Mouth Words Edition
Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:42 am
When it comes to storm-troopers, I'd be angrier if they DIDN'T have some kind of defense by now. The only excuse they had in the original trilogy was arrogance: Vader was the only guy who "should" have a lightsaber, and he was on their side. But now that they know Luke's running around and that he's potentially trained other jedi, you'd have to be some kind of a moron to not develop something to counter them.
How many stormtroopers died from getting lasers reflected back into them? I mean sure, their chance of bumping off a jedi in hand-to-hand combat is pretty slim, but it's still better than getting hit with their own blaster-shots, their arms cut off without defense or worse.
The idea is sound, but there was probably a better way of presenting this development than with an Indiana Jones-esque karate dance.
How many stormtroopers died from getting lasers reflected back into them? I mean sure, their chance of bumping off a jedi in hand-to-hand combat is pretty slim, but it's still better than getting hit with their own blaster-shots, their arms cut off without defense or worse.
The idea is sound, but there was probably a better way of presenting this development than with an Indiana Jones-esque karate dance.
Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:43 am
Surlaw:
I don't know, Solo is a smug jerk but I still find the romance pretty believable. Also think it makes perfect sense that they didn't manage to stay together. I'd say their relationship in the new one is more positive, but I'm not sure that makes it more human. I thought Fisher sold the "I hate him but I love him" concept pretty well in Empire, which might be a bad model for a relationship but is still pretty human.
Gizmog:
I see where you're coming from. I personally kinda view it the opposite way. To me, Jedi and light sabers (before the prequels) were magic. If it were possible to have foot-soldiers combat them on their own terms, then they should have been doing it all along (like you say) and the light saber becomes 'just another weapon', not really that special. So to me, both the logic AND the fun stay best if you just never show anything capable of fencing with a light saber besides a second light saber.
This actually brings up another thing that I love about the new movie. Basically, the Force is back to being 'magic', and certain people are just good at it 'naturally'. Obi Wan doesn't 'teach' Luke how to beat the floating ball, he just tells him to put the damn helmet on. Yoda's training sessions are about believing and feeling; they're never 'how to' sessions. Leia can hear Luke in need - nobody told her about it, let alone how to do it.
In the prequels, this concept is watered down, or maybe even eliminated depending on your point of view. At least, the Jedi council appear to have a training regimen for children. In the new one, Rey doesn't need anybody to tell her how to mind trick 007, or how to call the light saber, or how to use it. She's just a natural, and maybe she has heard some stories that she never used to believe in, but now she believes. Then bam, no need for EXP, she just gains like 300 levelups and is off to the races. I love it. It is literally the dream of every fan, right? You watched the old movies and wanted to be a Jedi, but you 'know' it can't be real. So you just played with the toys and ate crappy green food while wearing your play-Rebel helmet. Then one day, the bad guy is trying to break into your mind and somehow, someway, you can stop him! And the light saber chooses you over that whiny asshole!
Sorry for the new rant, but the more I think about it, this is one of the main "in universe" (as opposed to better acting, etc) reasons that this movie worked so well for me, despite borrowing so much from the original films.
I am Srime
I don't know, Solo is a smug jerk but I still find the romance pretty believable. Also think it makes perfect sense that they didn't manage to stay together. I'd say their relationship in the new one is more positive, but I'm not sure that makes it more human. I thought Fisher sold the "I hate him but I love him" concept pretty well in Empire, which might be a bad model for a relationship but is still pretty human.
Gizmog:
I see where you're coming from. I personally kinda view it the opposite way. To me, Jedi and light sabers (before the prequels) were magic. If it were possible to have foot-soldiers combat them on their own terms, then they should have been doing it all along (like you say) and the light saber becomes 'just another weapon', not really that special. So to me, both the logic AND the fun stay best if you just never show anything capable of fencing with a light saber besides a second light saber.
This actually brings up another thing that I love about the new movie. Basically, the Force is back to being 'magic', and certain people are just good at it 'naturally'. Obi Wan doesn't 'teach' Luke how to beat the floating ball, he just tells him to put the damn helmet on. Yoda's training sessions are about believing and feeling; they're never 'how to' sessions. Leia can hear Luke in need - nobody told her about it, let alone how to do it.
In the prequels, this concept is watered down, or maybe even eliminated depending on your point of view. At least, the Jedi council appear to have a training regimen for children. In the new one, Rey doesn't need anybody to tell her how to mind trick 007, or how to call the light saber, or how to use it. She's just a natural, and maybe she has heard some stories that she never used to believe in, but now she believes. Then bam, no need for EXP, she just gains like 300 levelups and is off to the races. I love it. It is literally the dream of every fan, right? You watched the old movies and wanted to be a Jedi, but you 'know' it can't be real. So you just played with the toys and ate crappy green food while wearing your play-Rebel helmet. Then one day, the bad guy is trying to break into your mind and somehow, someway, you can stop him! And the light saber chooses you over that whiny asshole!
Sorry for the new rant, but the more I think about it, this is one of the main "in universe" (as opposed to better acting, etc) reasons that this movie worked so well for me, despite borrowing so much from the original films.
I am Srime
Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:59 am
MSW: I agree 100% that there should be a sense of magic to the force. My least favorite part of the video games was how they tried to turn everything into a spell: That bit where Vader throws his lightsaber at Luke went from "Vader just used the force to throw his lightsaber at Luke!" into "FORCE SABER THROW - Totally a technique that people learned and mastered and was associated with styles of combat!".. took away all the mystery. Yoda lifting the X-Wing out of the swamp was the ultimate example: He wasn't doing like "FORCE X-WING"... he was simply using the force to manipulate physical matter. The size didn't matter, the material didn't matter, you can move things with the power of the Force!
But the lightsaber, to me, was a weapon. They didn't go into its rules and limitations, but they were there. It couldn't cut effortlessly through anything, when Luke and Vader fought I'm pretty sure it bounced off rails a few times. Luke didn't run up to an AT-AT and cut its legs off, because he couldn't do that and likewise Obi-Wan Kenobi couldn't go running through the Death Star willy-nilly, putting holes in the walls anywhere he felt like.
That was one of my favorite parts of the prequels, by the way, Qui-Gonn using his lightsaber to try to break through the blast-door into the control room of the Trade Federation ship. There was molten steel running all over the place and sparks flying and it was clear that this was a dangerous, desperate and time consuming thing to do. The consequences make it way more fun.
It's like a sword vs. a gun. A gun will kill you dead, but a sword could cut your frickin head off. If you or I had a lightsaber, we'd be as likely to cut off our own thumbs as to kill a bad guy and that's what makes Jedi even more magical: They can use the force to coax these deadly beams of light away from their limbs and towards the limbs of their foes.
I also always liked the bit where Han used Luke's lightsaber to cut them out of an ewok net, it was A) A very practical and natural way out of the problem and B) Demonstrated that you didn't have to be a Jedi to use the thing, but that being a Jedi makes you way, way better at it.
THe weapon in Spoony's gif is ridiculous and the macho posturing with it even more-so. I see where you're coming from too, because what I hated the most about the Knights of the Old Republic games was that literally EVERY knife or sword in the game had some bullshit alloy that made it capable of standing up to a lightsaber.
I realize that stormtroopers are meant to be expendable. It's like a TIE Fighter, it's got no shields, it's got no hyperdrive, but you can make a hundred of 'em for the cost of an X-Wing and you can always get more pilots. I just can't imagine a universe where they know they might encounter a light-saber wielding Jedi and they don't even take like.. a piece of pipe on the grounds that it'll take the Jedi longer to cut through that than their arm.
A Jedi's obviously never going to lose to a stormtrooper though: A Jedi has the force, which makes him way more competent than the stormtrooper could even hope to be.
Now with regards to the Jedi Council's training regimen, that makes a lot of sense. Even in the original trilogy, Vader notes that the Force is unusually strong with Luke during the Battle of Yavin and Yoda tries to convince Obi-Wan that Luke is too old to begin Jedi training. In real life, we have this kind of thing with gymnasts: They're better able to swing through the air and twist and turn and leap, because they don't know what it feels like to mes up and break their face open. Once you know the pain of falling, it's harder to go through the air without worrying about it.
You hear about potential in sports a lot, actually. Some guys are born with a career in basketball handed to them on a silver plate, they're the perfect combination of size, muscle and agility to put a ball through a hoop. Some guys have the potential but never actually become great ball players, because it was too easy for them. They never learned how to practice, how to dig deep and overcome the bad times.
And in my book, that's what Jedi Training was really about. Perserverance, calm and focus. The ability to use the force harmoniously, towards a greater good, rather than simply bending things to your will because you can. They might be able to detect that certain beings are more or less naturally inclined towards the Force, but only through focus and meditation can they actually learn to utilize that power.
The Matrix touched on this a little too, and I'm getting the two mixed up but.. the basic idea is that it isn't so much about belief, because Luke knows the Force is real and that it can lift things.. it's about suspending disbelief. Luke's a smart young man, he knows how heavy his X-Wing is and he knows how thick the swamp is and what kind of real mechanical effort would be involved to get it back out. A little kid doesn't know that and it's easier for them to accept the possibilities of The Force/Matrix from sheer ignorance alone. The earlier you get to someone, the sooner you're able to "not" teach them about things, the more able they are to accept their own ability.
But I also always felt like there had to be a certain monastic focus to it. It can't just be "belief" or else you wouldn't need Death Stars: Vader could've just willed a planet into its sun like Yoda with an X-Wing.
To me, Luke was never "The Chosen One". He was a guy who got dragged into something and he knew just enough to make himself dangerous at the right moments and he still got chumped plenty of times along the way. That's part of the reason I've been weirded out by this whole.. "Star Wars Spoiler" phenomenon because the original trilogy didn't have a whole lot that could be spoiled and I hope this new trilogy doesn't try to do some big twist for the sake of trending on twitter.
At any rate, that's why I was doubly frustrated with Rey's quick development in the force. It feels both like a childish fantasy that undermines Luke's plot arc, that anybody can pretend their way to success in a few afternoons, and then secondly like a set-up for some kind of twist, a "Gotcha! She's got some DEEP DARK SECRET, which explains why it was all so easy!" to be revealed halfway through the second movie, maybe at some kind of a city in the clouds.
I don't envy the writers. They've got to try to keep the Force powerful, with 30 years of "Duuuuude, wouldn't it be cool if Yoda could like..." speculation to compete against. At the same time they've gotta keep things believable to avoid getting into that cheesy "Duuuude what if this uy was so strong with the Force that he could like... crash a Star Destroyer with just the power of his mind!" stuff that so many of the video games and novels did.
Then again, things have changed. In 1980, we didn't know that The Force could lift an X-Wing out of a swamp. We were learning about it right alongside Luke, with the Emperor's force lightning being a painful final lesson for everyone involved. He didn't need a light saber to be dangerous and Vader didn't need the force to be his downfall.
Now that we do know what it can do, maybe it makes sense that we skip things ahead a little and get to the good part, rather than standing on our heads and running through swamps but.. there's still something about the progression that feels very off to me.
But the lightsaber, to me, was a weapon. They didn't go into its rules and limitations, but they were there. It couldn't cut effortlessly through anything, when Luke and Vader fought I'm pretty sure it bounced off rails a few times. Luke didn't run up to an AT-AT and cut its legs off, because he couldn't do that and likewise Obi-Wan Kenobi couldn't go running through the Death Star willy-nilly, putting holes in the walls anywhere he felt like.
That was one of my favorite parts of the prequels, by the way, Qui-Gonn using his lightsaber to try to break through the blast-door into the control room of the Trade Federation ship. There was molten steel running all over the place and sparks flying and it was clear that this was a dangerous, desperate and time consuming thing to do. The consequences make it way more fun.
It's like a sword vs. a gun. A gun will kill you dead, but a sword could cut your frickin head off. If you or I had a lightsaber, we'd be as likely to cut off our own thumbs as to kill a bad guy and that's what makes Jedi even more magical: They can use the force to coax these deadly beams of light away from their limbs and towards the limbs of their foes.
I also always liked the bit where Han used Luke's lightsaber to cut them out of an ewok net, it was A) A very practical and natural way out of the problem and B) Demonstrated that you didn't have to be a Jedi to use the thing, but that being a Jedi makes you way, way better at it.
THe weapon in Spoony's gif is ridiculous and the macho posturing with it even more-so. I see where you're coming from too, because what I hated the most about the Knights of the Old Republic games was that literally EVERY knife or sword in the game had some bullshit alloy that made it capable of standing up to a lightsaber.
I realize that stormtroopers are meant to be expendable. It's like a TIE Fighter, it's got no shields, it's got no hyperdrive, but you can make a hundred of 'em for the cost of an X-Wing and you can always get more pilots. I just can't imagine a universe where they know they might encounter a light-saber wielding Jedi and they don't even take like.. a piece of pipe on the grounds that it'll take the Jedi longer to cut through that than their arm.
A Jedi's obviously never going to lose to a stormtrooper though: A Jedi has the force, which makes him way more competent than the stormtrooper could even hope to be.
Now with regards to the Jedi Council's training regimen, that makes a lot of sense. Even in the original trilogy, Vader notes that the Force is unusually strong with Luke during the Battle of Yavin and Yoda tries to convince Obi-Wan that Luke is too old to begin Jedi training. In real life, we have this kind of thing with gymnasts: They're better able to swing through the air and twist and turn and leap, because they don't know what it feels like to mes up and break their face open. Once you know the pain of falling, it's harder to go through the air without worrying about it.
You hear about potential in sports a lot, actually. Some guys are born with a career in basketball handed to them on a silver plate, they're the perfect combination of size, muscle and agility to put a ball through a hoop. Some guys have the potential but never actually become great ball players, because it was too easy for them. They never learned how to practice, how to dig deep and overcome the bad times.
And in my book, that's what Jedi Training was really about. Perserverance, calm and focus. The ability to use the force harmoniously, towards a greater good, rather than simply bending things to your will because you can. They might be able to detect that certain beings are more or less naturally inclined towards the Force, but only through focus and meditation can they actually learn to utilize that power.
The Matrix touched on this a little too, and I'm getting the two mixed up but.. the basic idea is that it isn't so much about belief, because Luke knows the Force is real and that it can lift things.. it's about suspending disbelief. Luke's a smart young man, he knows how heavy his X-Wing is and he knows how thick the swamp is and what kind of real mechanical effort would be involved to get it back out. A little kid doesn't know that and it's easier for them to accept the possibilities of The Force/Matrix from sheer ignorance alone. The earlier you get to someone, the sooner you're able to "not" teach them about things, the more able they are to accept their own ability.
But I also always felt like there had to be a certain monastic focus to it. It can't just be "belief" or else you wouldn't need Death Stars: Vader could've just willed a planet into its sun like Yoda with an X-Wing.
To me, Luke was never "The Chosen One". He was a guy who got dragged into something and he knew just enough to make himself dangerous at the right moments and he still got chumped plenty of times along the way. That's part of the reason I've been weirded out by this whole.. "Star Wars Spoiler" phenomenon because the original trilogy didn't have a whole lot that could be spoiled and I hope this new trilogy doesn't try to do some big twist for the sake of trending on twitter.
At any rate, that's why I was doubly frustrated with Rey's quick development in the force. It feels both like a childish fantasy that undermines Luke's plot arc, that anybody can pretend their way to success in a few afternoons, and then secondly like a set-up for some kind of twist, a "Gotcha! She's got some DEEP DARK SECRET, which explains why it was all so easy!" to be revealed halfway through the second movie, maybe at some kind of a city in the clouds.
I don't envy the writers. They've got to try to keep the Force powerful, with 30 years of "Duuuuude, wouldn't it be cool if Yoda could like..." speculation to compete against. At the same time they've gotta keep things believable to avoid getting into that cheesy "Duuuude what if this uy was so strong with the Force that he could like... crash a Star Destroyer with just the power of his mind!" stuff that so many of the video games and novels did.
Then again, things have changed. In 1980, we didn't know that The Force could lift an X-Wing out of a swamp. We were learning about it right alongside Luke, with the Emperor's force lightning being a painful final lesson for everyone involved. He didn't need a light saber to be dangerous and Vader didn't need the force to be his downfall.
Now that we do know what it can do, maybe it makes sense that we skip things ahead a little and get to the good part, rather than standing on our heads and running through swamps but.. there's still something about the progression that feels very off to me.
Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:15 pm
Love this Star War talk.
Just want to say that I totally hate the novels and the video games that classify every Force power as a skill set to level up, as Giz said. For all the bellyaching about Midichlorians ruining the Force, that was always way worse to me.
Super Walrus Land: Mouth Words Edition
Just want to say that I totally hate the novels and the video games that classify every Force power as a skill set to level up, as Giz said. For all the bellyaching about Midichlorians ruining the Force, that was always way worse to me.
Super Walrus Land: Mouth Words Edition