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I still say we should go with the multiple cups idea. And I'm going to keep saying this. Mwah. Ha ha. Ha ha.
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x
Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:18 pm 
I see I see...
I still say we should go with the multiple cups idea. And I'm going to keep saying this. Mwah. Ha ha. Ha ha.
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x
I still say we should go with the multiple cups idea. And I'm going to keep saying this. Mwah. Ha ha. Ha ha.
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x
Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:18 pm
That will be hard to administrate. How will you deal with prizes, voting/judging, etc. Are there even enough active members to warrant having multiple categories?
Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:52 pm
Me in the HSpeak Thread wrote:
Well, the HotOHR contest is looooooooooong. If you host a 1 dungeon deadline, then you could tie it into the HotOHR now. It'd give people a goal and a landmark for their HotOHR entry (in the new games category anyway).
What I meant back there was that you could do the first dungeon for your HotOHR game as the entry for this, it'd create additional hype for your game.
Another great idea would be to create a dungeon for a HowTo chapter. Back in the old HowTo chapters there was a Dungeon tutorial. Why not look for that, take some of that theory and put it towards this contest? You could break down the design, and contest steps like this:
1) After 2 days post the blueprint for your dungeon, and 1 image that you drew inspiration from.
2) After another day block out your dungeon, give a paragraph about the dungeon and possibly post an image.
3) At the end of the week post a draft (or final) version of the dungeon.
Just an idea, you could always try the 11 Day Level Design challenge instead as inspiration as-well:
Linky
Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:11 pm
I agree, posting a single dungeon from your HotOHR game would indeedy be great publicity. Would also provide for some valuable feedback.
I agree, having multiple cups would only really work if the community was a lot larger, or if everyone had the time/drive/ambition to enter multiple cups. The HotOHR is divided into three categories, as is proposed here, but the HotOHR is a really big contest, and those categories don't really have separate themes, but are rather a means of differentiating between release types.
I'd have to go with a single theme, like using VoM resources or something similar. It couldn't be a big contest, possibly a short one or two week deal.
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
SwampTroll wrote:
That will be hard to administrate. How will you deal with prizes, voting/judging, etc. Are there even enough active members to warrant having multiple categories?
I agree, having multiple cups would only really work if the community was a lot larger, or if everyone had the time/drive/ambition to enter multiple cups. The HotOHR is divided into three categories, as is proposed here, but the HotOHR is a really big contest, and those categories don't really have separate themes, but are rather a means of differentiating between release types.
I'd have to go with a single theme, like using VoM resources or something similar. It couldn't be a big contest, possibly a short one or two week deal.
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:49 pm
NeoSpade, as much as I liked the Wiki's HowTo on dungeons and would like to see a similar process happen here, it would complicate things too much. We have a simple plan with a simple goal: make dungeons using VoM resources and submit them for people to play through, enjoy, and hopefully learn from. The submissions should have a beginning and an end, should focus almost entirely on one single dungeon, and ought to be fun and challenging. How we get to that end is up to us, individually. The fun could come from telling an enjoyable story as the dungeon progresses, or by setting the dungeon up with clever puzzles to solve, or by giving the player fun battles to run through, or by hiding useful treasures in challenging spots. It could be any of these, all of these, or none of these, because I'm sure there's some cool things I haven't even thought about that could make your dungeon the best one ever.
With all that in mind, I propose the following categories for judging these dungeons:
Creativity - You dungeon will score higher if you use the available resources in interesting, unique, and creative ways. Low scores will be given to dungeons that are bland or repetitive, or if they copy a dungeon from an existing game, OHR or otherwise. You will automatically fail this category if you use a map from Vikings of Midgard without changing it significantly.
Challenge - Your dungeon will score higher if you actively challenge the player's skills and wit through tricky puzzles or tough battles or what have you. Low scores will be given to dungeons that are laughably easy or infuriatingly difficult. You will automatically fail this category if the player just has to walk in a straight line to reach the end, or if the player can win every battle by holding the spacebar.
Fun - Your dungeon will score higher if you make the player's adventure worthwhile and give them a final product that is enjoyable. This one's easy to judge, but hard to work into gameplay. Low scores will be given if the player is ever forced to say "I'm so bored" or "Why did I even bother playing this" or "Oh hey, a game-stopping bug." You will automatically fail this category if you set up dirty tricks that directly attack the player's expectations, such as lying to them with in-game text, deliberately misdirecting them, and setting up instant-death traps with no warning.
(on that note, we should probably have a week or more open between the game submissions and the actual judging so that people can play through the game and test for bugs. Revisions to remove bugs will be accepted during this period.)
EDIT: Here's another quality that might merit its own category.
Conveyance - Your dungeon will be scored according to how well you convey information to the player and effectively guide them through the adventure. Extra points will be awarded to designers who use subtle clues and visual cues. Low scores will be given if the player gets confused or lost often, with no idea what to do or where to go. You will automatically fail this category if you immediately present the player with a wall of text explicitly telling them every last detail of what they're supposed to do and how to do it.
And then I guess we can have an overall score at the end of it. Maybe grade the previous set with A, B, C, or F marks and give the overall one an all-things-considered grade (not an average or sum of the previous grades) of quality that is independent of the previous categories.
With all that in mind, I propose the following categories for judging these dungeons:
Creativity - You dungeon will score higher if you use the available resources in interesting, unique, and creative ways. Low scores will be given to dungeons that are bland or repetitive, or if they copy a dungeon from an existing game, OHR or otherwise. You will automatically fail this category if you use a map from Vikings of Midgard without changing it significantly.
Challenge - Your dungeon will score higher if you actively challenge the player's skills and wit through tricky puzzles or tough battles or what have you. Low scores will be given to dungeons that are laughably easy or infuriatingly difficult. You will automatically fail this category if the player just has to walk in a straight line to reach the end, or if the player can win every battle by holding the spacebar.
Fun - Your dungeon will score higher if you make the player's adventure worthwhile and give them a final product that is enjoyable. This one's easy to judge, but hard to work into gameplay. Low scores will be given if the player is ever forced to say "I'm so bored" or "Why did I even bother playing this" or "Oh hey, a game-stopping bug." You will automatically fail this category if you set up dirty tricks that directly attack the player's expectations, such as lying to them with in-game text, deliberately misdirecting them, and setting up instant-death traps with no warning.
(on that note, we should probably have a week or more open between the game submissions and the actual judging so that people can play through the game and test for bugs. Revisions to remove bugs will be accepted during this period.)
EDIT: Here's another quality that might merit its own category.
Conveyance - Your dungeon will be scored according to how well you convey information to the player and effectively guide them through the adventure. Extra points will be awarded to designers who use subtle clues and visual cues. Low scores will be given if the player gets confused or lost often, with no idea what to do or where to go. You will automatically fail this category if you immediately present the player with a wall of text explicitly telling them every last detail of what they're supposed to do and how to do it.
And then I guess we can have an overall score at the end of it. Maybe grade the previous set with A, B, C, or F marks and give the overall one an all-things-considered grade (not an average or sum of the previous grades) of quality that is independent of the previous categories.
Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:17 am
@swamptroll:
This thread is for the discussion of how judging and whatnot are to be handled. Me, being the poor-jobless-college-kid I am, can not offer much in the realm of physical objects. Maybe an old piece of junk I made in 8th grade art class (since that was "pottery", in a way, though I only caused a disaster with the pottery wheel in that class, but that's a humourous story for another time, point is I was stuck making models of silly things...no one will want any of it, trust me....welllll, they may want the evil-unibrowed-(butterfly-winged)-(dragon-spined)-(umbrella hat-wearing)-(pig-nosed)-(four-tentacled)-and some other adjectives Monkey Head, but I'm not willing to give that crazy thing up).
As for judges, why not the public? A public voting seems good. However, I say for the Cup of Midgard that perhaps Fenrir should be the judge of it?
Going back to prizes, they could be administered to the individual winners of each cup. I was maybe thinking something to do with art? I dunno. It all depends on what people want to do I guess. Of course, we'd have to limit one submission per person or something like that I guess.
As for time and such, the contest doesn't have to be a week long or something, it could go on for a while, I dunno. Perhaps have it a 1/4 a year long or something. You know, it would be nice to have some sort of contest going on most of the time.
And to dear Neospade, it would seem like a good idea to submit a contest entry from a heart of the OHR thing...only my first dungeon isn't all that fancy, it's rather small...and if you would suggest the first dungeon OTHER than the place you start off in....there are two. Eh, I again go back to the submission of any dungeon chosen.
Edit for prevention of double post:
Here's an idea, we could have separate contests at separate times for the the "Cup of Midgard", since Baconlabs seems fixated on that (and I'm not, though I do support it), and since I'm kinda fixated on the "lone dungeon" contest. Perhaps the Midgard contest can happen sooner than the "one dungeon" contest, as the Midgard one is using materials already existing, but the "one dungeon" will likely be using something original, thus it will take a wee longer to get done.
As usual, discuss.
People can work in teams, ya know. I won't murder you for it. I encourage team support for higher quality dungeons.
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x
This thread is for the discussion of how judging and whatnot are to be handled. Me, being the poor-jobless-college-kid I am, can not offer much in the realm of physical objects. Maybe an old piece of junk I made in 8th grade art class (since that was "pottery", in a way, though I only caused a disaster with the pottery wheel in that class, but that's a humourous story for another time, point is I was stuck making models of silly things...no one will want any of it, trust me....welllll, they may want the evil-unibrowed-(butterfly-winged)-(dragon-spined)-(umbrella hat-wearing)-(pig-nosed)-(four-tentacled)-and some other adjectives Monkey Head, but I'm not willing to give that crazy thing up).
As for judges, why not the public? A public voting seems good. However, I say for the Cup of Midgard that perhaps Fenrir should be the judge of it?
Going back to prizes, they could be administered to the individual winners of each cup. I was maybe thinking something to do with art? I dunno. It all depends on what people want to do I guess. Of course, we'd have to limit one submission per person or something like that I guess.
As for time and such, the contest doesn't have to be a week long or something, it could go on for a while, I dunno. Perhaps have it a 1/4 a year long or something. You know, it would be nice to have some sort of contest going on most of the time.
And to dear Neospade, it would seem like a good idea to submit a contest entry from a heart of the OHR thing...only my first dungeon isn't all that fancy, it's rather small...and if you would suggest the first dungeon OTHER than the place you start off in....there are two. Eh, I again go back to the submission of any dungeon chosen.
Edit for prevention of double post:
Here's an idea, we could have separate contests at separate times for the the "Cup of Midgard", since Baconlabs seems fixated on that (and I'm not, though I do support it), and since I'm kinda fixated on the "lone dungeon" contest. Perhaps the Midgard contest can happen sooner than the "one dungeon" contest, as the Midgard one is using materials already existing, but the "one dungeon" will likely be using something original, thus it will take a wee longer to get done.
As usual, discuss.
People can work in teams, ya know. I won't murder you for it. I encourage team support for higher quality dungeons.
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x
Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:36 am
I would enter this contest. I've needed a reason to create a dungeon for a very long time.
I like the sound of encouraging people to work on their HotOHR games by wrapping up a dungeon into a self contained game. Obviously in that case using graphics from Vikings should not be required, though I also think that encouraging the use of Vikings if you aren't transplanting a dungeon from an in-progress game is a great idea. Specify that the graphics are outside of judgement. Of course use/placement of available graphics is still something voters can take into account.
Running a contest for more than one week is generally a bad idea, but an exception might be made due to a HotOHR tie-in.
I like the sound of encouraging people to work on their HotOHR games by wrapping up a dungeon into a self contained game. Obviously in that case using graphics from Vikings should not be required, though I also think that encouraging the use of Vikings if you aren't transplanting a dungeon from an in-progress game is a great idea. Specify that the graphics are outside of judgement. Of course use/placement of available graphics is still something voters can take into account.
Running a contest for more than one week is generally a bad idea, but an exception might be made due to a HotOHR tie-in.
Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:10 am
^Am I the only one who was confused by what he just said?
Maybe I'm just tired...
I would enter a dungeon contest, but it would take me time as I have a game in particular I've been working on a bit on the side ever since last Thanksgiving time. It's purely on paper right now, but I do have plans to make it. The game is featuring a Super Dungeon, of sorts, sorta like how Persona works out I guess. The one dungeon.
The game was designed to be relatively on the short side, mostly because I'm tired of all my games being incomplete for some reason or another. The game isn't going to be one of those "1 or 2 hour tops games that flood everywhere and serve no purpose!" games, it's meant to be somewhat "full", but not spectacularly so.
Eh, if you want to know more, just PM me. I'll be glad to ramble on about it, I just don't want to blabber on here.
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x
Maybe I'm just tired...
I would enter a dungeon contest, but it would take me time as I have a game in particular I've been working on a bit on the side ever since last Thanksgiving time. It's purely on paper right now, but I do have plans to make it. The game is featuring a Super Dungeon, of sorts, sorta like how Persona works out I guess. The one dungeon.
The game was designed to be relatively on the short side, mostly because I'm tired of all my games being incomplete for some reason or another. The game isn't going to be one of those "1 or 2 hour tops games that flood everywhere and serve no purpose!" games, it's meant to be somewhat "full", but not spectacularly so.
Eh, if you want to know more, just PM me. I'll be glad to ramble on about it, I just don't want to blabber on here.
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x
Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:16 am
BMR wrote:
I agree, having multiple cups would only really work if the community was a lot larger, or if everyone had the time/drive/ambition to enter multiple cups.
SwampTroll wrote:
That will be hard to administrate. How will you deal with prizes, voting/judging, etc. Are there even enough active members to warrant having multiple categories?
I agree, having multiple cups would only really work if the community was a lot larger, or if everyone had the time/drive/ambition to enter multiple cups.
Meow: You've completely overlooked this. I suggest you review how many active members there are and compare that with how many game submissions there have been recently. Once you have done this you will see that having 'multiple cups' with a community this size is ill considered. There is a genuine likely-hood of just one person entering a category and winning it by default, which is neither fair on them or the rest of the community.
In regards to the prizes situation: there are many models available for deriving prizes from within the community. If you look at previous contests you will see how they have tackled it.
Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:20 pm
I did suggest splitting up the contests in a way...at least the ones people are expressing interest in the most.
Also, I kinda forgot BMR said that. >_>
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x
Also, I kinda forgot BMR said that. >_>
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x
Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:38 pm
How's about this then:
Category 1: HotOHR Preview
In this category, a single dungeon from your HotOHR entry is released. It is judged on the criteria mentioned in this thread, and a winner is chosen. No prizes are given for this category, as it's primarily a prestige/critique thing.
Category 2: Standalone Dungeon
Here, you can create a dungeon using VoM or your own graphics. Graphics will not be a part of the judging, but rather level design and gameplay will be the focus.
The entire contest would take a week. Alternatively, the first category could either be scrapped, or set as the sole category of the contest.
Still a bit fuzzy on the details though.
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Category 1: HotOHR Preview
In this category, a single dungeon from your HotOHR entry is released. It is judged on the criteria mentioned in this thread, and a winner is chosen. No prizes are given for this category, as it's primarily a prestige/critique thing.
Category 2: Standalone Dungeon
Here, you can create a dungeon using VoM or your own graphics. Graphics will not be a part of the judging, but rather level design and gameplay will be the focus.
The entire contest would take a week. Alternatively, the first category could either be scrapped, or set as the sole category of the contest.
Still a bit fuzzy on the details though.
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:08 pm
I think the second category is a more interesting competition. There will be a balance issue though; if some people choose to use VoM graphics, then the other parties are put at a disadvantage for time.
Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:25 pm
Hmm, yes, that is true. I hadn't thought of that. So, perhaps the second category, but restricted to VoM graphics?
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:28 pm
Yeah, that sounds good!
Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:20 am
I'm throwing this contest and I think making it it's own thread. Expect it later today.
Thanks for the feedback.
Thanks for the feedback.