View topic - Heart of the OHR Contest 2012

I see that most of you are voting now, and that's great. Just a reminder to those who still want to vote but haven't yet, this is the final week to get them in. The deadline for voting is officially on the 15th (Tuesday), but it's unlikely I'll get around to compiling them until Saturday or Sunday, so if you sneak in a late vote, I'll accept it as long as I haven't started compiling the list by then.

Also, don't forget, you can edit your posts as you go, so if you want to vote, but you've only played one or two games so far, feel free to rate what you've played, and add in the others as you play them. That's what several people are doing already.

As for my votes, I'm not as far along as I'd like to be, but here are my scores and comments so far:

Original:

Universal Wars by jcenterprises
I believe I've written a detailed commentary on this game earlier in the thread, or at least I imagine that I had. The summation is that the world is absurd and I love the sense of humor it has. It's stupid, but in a good way. Battles are boring, as is game design, but I was able to overlook the bad mechanics for the pleasure of moving through a crazy world. I finished the mad cow quest and got bored walking through that long, battle-happy forest that gave me nothing to look at. Thanks to the ridiculous story, I am interested in seeing how the pirate quest plays out, but I'm expecting my opinion to remain constant, so I'll finish playing it on my free time, and not on voting time. Graphics are bad, and the maps are mostly uninteresting. In retrospect, I shouldn't have liked this game when you really break down the individual nitpicks, but for some reason, boiled down the ingredients are passable. I wish I knew why.

Score: 5

Illusions by MasterK
I agree with Wobbler that the "illusions" part of battles is a cool gimmick, and I like having to analyze them before I can attack. I don't understand why most of the enemies don't fight back, or why our heroes are fighting defenseless creatures. The bees are ridiculously strong, and the girl did not survive. To counter what Wobbler wrote, I was able to heal the girl by going back to the house and using the bed, but it's not entirely intuitive to do that if you're purposely moving away from the house. The solution for me was to never knock the beehive down again and just run away. Boss battles were pretty simple for the most part. I lost the first battle initially when the boss summoned all of her minions back, so on my second run I just defeated the first two minions and left the last one alone and put all my concentration on the boss. She went down pretty easily after that. I like the gimmick of taking a ship from island to island and coming back to town when the surveys of each island are complete.

The game is rife with bugs. Of the doors in town that aren't locked, some of them lead in or out of the wrong buildings, some drop the player next to the door but not in front of it, and the armor shop is completely inaccessible. Some of the game mechanics are also broken. The alchemy menu is incomplete, and most of the items that can be accessed I can't craft without traveling to islands past the point of introduction to the feature, which seems pointless to me. Some doors are placed in strange places and in one area in particular, I had to walk through a door and then walk through it again just to move down a path that the door was blocking. I got as far as the second island where I'm climbing down into volcanic holes, but had to stop because the back of the mountain didn't seem to go anywhere and I had already explored the other holes as much as I could find. (And that long circular journey through black space was the most annoying part of the game -- worse than walking under tree cover for half of the forest maze map.)

I applaud the effort this game makes, and I am somewhat interested in the story. But I'm not yet convinced that this game will keep me going. Maybe after all the bugs are fixed I'd be willing to give it a second try.

Score: 3

DUNGEONMEN: Men of Dungeons by KF Harlock and Shizuma
I started this game a couple of months ago, but haven't really gone anywhere with it yet. So far all I can comment on is the graphics, which I thought were amazing. I will probably save this one for last since I know it'll take up the most of my time, and I want to get in as many of the shorter games rated first as I can.

EDIT: I saved this game for last, and I wasn't disappointed with my decision. This is perhaps one of the best "simple" type of RPGs on the OHR. Obviously, this is no simple game with all of its customizable features: hero selection, weapons and armor upgrades, mining, and so forth. Yet, it doesn't hit me over the head with features that I would neither neglect nor feel overwhelmed by. I think this game manages to pace the player at his own speed and doesn't throw out any of the underprepared demands that so many other (linear) RPGs cast on its players. It gives me a ton of money and options at the beginning without ever making me feel bad for leaving something behind. And best of all, I don't feel pressured to upgrade to the next level. It just gives me the option to spend the extra money if I really want to.

I think what I like most about this game is the fact that weapons, armor, and healing items aren't enough to successfully navigate a dungeon. You also need torches, keys (or a knight with strong shoulders), mechanisms for disarming traps, and so forth. It's a true questing game that doesn't try to complicate the story or deliver information in trite ways. It's straightforward in its rules and successful in its delivery. And, as I said earlier in this post, it looks great. Honestly, I have nothing bad to say about it. Even the gimmick with the torchlight, which normally bugs me in games, seems to belong in this one. Kinda makes me hope Harlock and Shizuma consider making a sequel. They know how to balance a game while still pushing its standard features to the limit.

Score: 10

Reign of Grelok by misac
This was the game I was probably dreading the most of all the entries given what I know about its art and many, many typos. But I have to say that for all of its shortcomings, I did walk away appreciating what it strove to do. It was never too difficult, and though the story was somewhat underdeveloped, I thought it managed to capture what it needed to in the tiny space it was given to grow. Much of the experience reminded me of the old NES days where games could be finished in 30 minutes or less, but not yet forgotten, for the "70% content discovered" message I earned when I finished it reminded me that, although I was done with the game, I wasn't really yet done with it. I also liked how it employed the crossroads style of gameplay where all of your decisions stem from the center map and you can choose which direction to go next to complete the adventure (of course, this is a ruse, since certain town characters cannot be accessed until certain missions are completed). I should be annoyed that there is no way to save the game; at the same time, the lack of save adds to its charm. The thing I liked most though was the map transition screens. Reminded me of some of my favorite PC games like Jagged Alliance 2 and Deus Ex and the minutes I'd waste looking at them as I waited for the next map to load.

I'm glad this is a finished game, and I don't feel compelled to go back to it. But I would be happy to play more games like it, though preferably ones with more polish behind them.

Score: 6

Legacy by BMR
I started this game, but I didn't get very far before deciding that I'd rather start over with a clean slate and see if I can tackle this with a bit more preparation. As it stands I made a rash decision before I knew it was rash, and I managed to cover about twenty steps in as many minutes. I will put more time into this soon, and hopefully my critique of it will be more meaningful than it is now. But at this moment I'm polarized. I love the visuals and the presentation, but the bugs that everyone's been complaining about I agree with (the fact that I've walked down one hallway and encountered at least two problems is a bad sign that this game needs more time with the bug exterminator before getting rereleased). And I echo the sentiment that battles take too long. One random battle took me five minutes to complete because one of the heroes (the one who's actually fast) hits for literally 0HP a pop against slimes; the other hits for 3HP at a time, and there are six enemies to fight at once, each with two stages of being that each take at least five hits per turn (of the slower hero who can actually cause damage). I quit after two random encounters, but I will go back and give it a more serious play through once I know I've got time for it. In the meantime, I'd suggest redoing how battles operate. A good RPG will speed through the boring stuff.

I will say that even though some people complained about the way heroes follow the leader, I kind of like the gimmick. But I'm not as worried about people getting caught on walls as others may be. They eventually get unstuck. I also don't mind the dialogue trees...yet. Right now, presentation is its strongest feature, but I noticed that for all the work that went into sights and sounds, not much went into character action. From a game this ambitious, I'd expect more animation and visual interaction (NPCs passing items back and forth, NPCs posing, etc.). Maybe that's coming, but I was surprised that the fancy introduction of the female leader was underwhelming in the actions department.

Anyway, it's rare that I can write two paragraphs and a follow-up paragraph about a game after walking through one hallway, but I feel like this game needs all kinds of feedback to make it better. I won't score it yet until I've given it fairer time.

EDIT: Okay, I have since finished the demo, and my feelings about the game haven't changed much. I did choose the normal path through the guards, which fortunately sped up the battles but also threw in a whole lot more of them, so I think it took me what would've been about the same amount of time to get through the stage as I would have had I stuck with traveling through the sewers. In both cases I found it tedious to get through.

As much as I appreciate the level of work that the author put into this game, I have to echo almost word for word the things that Harlock wrote in his critique. It's rare that a game with such depth comes out on the OHR, and I'm thankful that we have an author who's willing to put so much into his game. But as Harlock alluded to, for the depth to work, the game has to be fun, and I think presentation alone doesn't make a game fun.

So, I challenge all authors to consider a simple game design technique prior to making a visually stunning, audio impressive game rich with branching dialogue trees and massive regions: Make the same exact game with crappy graphics and no sound before converting it into something beautiful. Would people still have fun playing it? If the answer is yes, then bravo -- go make your masterpiece. If the answer is not a chance, then don't expect the visual feast to translate into an exciting event. If your goal is artistic or atmospheric genius, then mission accomplished. I could definitely see this game working in thirty-minute doses, kind of like a stage play where most of the drama is in complicated dialogue. But playing it for more than thirty minutes at a time makes me tired.

It's hard for me to make a constructive suggestion on how to improve this game because I believe it does everything that it's supposed to do. Yes, it's buggy, but I don't find the bugs particularly game-breaking, and I imagine they wouldn't be too difficult to fix. The dialogue trees feel clipped and I have a hard time following the conversations when so many crisscrossing points come up, but I appreciate how much the trees add to the personality of the characters. The battles...well, given that you earn so little experience from them, and given that the pirates will give you money when you reach the new port town anyway, I don't see a reason to have so many or to make them so tedious to fight. I think most of the early game update needs to go into making them better and vastly fewer. The map size -- I think because the visuals are so rich, I don't have a problem with map size, but I do have a problem with having so many vast places to explore with so few things to do. Yes, I can talk to NPCs all day, but with the complexity of their conversations and the lack of focus in their deliveries, I don't think I can muster up the patience to talk to a vast city's worth of NPCs in one sitting. I think you can "trim" the conversations down by giving the heroes a sense of who has information and who doesn't and then focus the topics down to just three or four things for those who really have nothing important to say.

I really want this game to work, for the amount of heart that's gone into it is astounding. But before you put any more time into the presentation, please go back and evaluate the fun factor. You can still make this game fun if you balance your battles and shorten your unimportant conversations, and remember that, like a novel, every ingredient involved in the presentation should keep the player's interest. I'm a nut for flavor text, but feeding me boring information through regular objects does not immerse me into the world you're creating any better than a line like, "He walked over there and did something cool" would immerse me in a novel. The books, as much as I love the fact that you put them in and used them as a source of information, were dull to read. I could go on, but I think if you dissect this advice and compare it to what you might read in a thriller or even in a work by Tolkien, you'll see what I mean.

Great effort overall, but I'm not yet ready to rave over it. Fix the gameplay and information feeds before moving on to the next section, and maybe this game will get the accolades I want it to deserve.

Score: 6

Super Penguin Chef by Mogri
I like this game a lot. It's pretty simple in its premise, and I have a soft spot for economic based games of this type, so it was trying to make me an instant fan from the start. As I've said in a later post, I don't want to play through the whole thing until it's reached its next major update (or completion) because this is the kind of game I want to spend time with and not feel cheated when I discover that I've finished all that there is to finish...for now.

Positives: Obviously, the point of this game is to mix dungeon-crawling with business simulation, so it goes to extra trouble to make sure that it doesn't complicate either feature. Do you need to pick up more ingredients? Go fight killer persimmons to get yourself some fruit. Are you running low on health and the dungeon's exit is way the heck back? Don't worry about it. If you fall, a school of ducklings or bunnies or something else relatively defenseless will sacrifice its life to get you back to town so that you can serve your customers and make a little extra cash. It's Walthrosian capitalism at its finest. And the dialogue fits the world perfectly. Oh, and the ability to choose my level-up power upgrade is a nice touch. I'd like to see more games do this.

Negatives: Some of the enemies hit a little too hard in the beginning, and I've found myself wasting a day from having fallen during the second battle. It would be nice to be able to advance a little further at the start. But it's not a big deal. I take comfort in knowing that I can fight to the death and not actually lose the game. It then becomes a race to see how deep into the dungeon I can go each day (like a runner who pushes himself to make it just a little bit farther than he did the day before). I'd also like better graphics, but that's not as big of a deal. It's loads of fun without the fancy presentation.

In short, this is my favorite Mogri game in a long time, probably since Darkmoor Dungeon, and I hope he sticks with it to completion. It's all kinds of excellent, and I look forward to the next update(s).

Score: 9

AR-PUH-GUH! by Meowskivich
Well, I'm not sure how to tackle this one. On the one hand I appreciate the level of ambition that went into it. The wide selection of classes keeps it from getting too stale, and what may be literally hundreds of items either available or promised in a future update gives the player plenty to hunt and gather. But these features are bogged down in menus that have no reason to be as complicated as they are, supported by gameplay that's for the most part tedious, and dropped into an adventure that doesn't yet feel like it has direction.

What I've gathered from not only the game's presentation, but also the many text files that come packaged with the game, is that it wants to give the player the full RPG experience -- training, beastiary, and so forth -- which I certainly admire. But I think in trying to do so much it actually makes the game a chore to play. This is especially true with the fighting mechanic that requires you to rest every five turns. Is it realistic? Yes. Is it fun? Not really. I also think its attempt at humor is more annoying than endearing. If it were set in a quirkier world, I'd be on board with it. But the world of AR-PUH-GUH seems too dark for the gimmicks it pulls with the signs and whatnot.

Now, I do think there's hope for this game. A simpler interface would take it farther. I also think battle balance needs attention. I didn't have much trouble making it out to the overworld map, but fighting the army at the port or attempting to tackle the cave with three heroes ended up in a massacre on my end, and there's no reason for EVERY battle to end that way. The problem, of course, is that at the next logical place of battle after escaping the transportation station has enemies that are so tough that my strongest weapons are hitting for 1HP each, and that sucks. Add to the fact that the droid I bought in town for free (yes, you've read that right), although generally the last hero standing, misses every dang shot he fires at the soldiers or cave enemies. It's unfair, and unfun, and I basically gave up before I could get to the heart of the story.

With some changes to gameplay and improvement to the presentation (including graphics, please), I'd be happy to give this another try. Until then, I don't think I'd have much fun playing this further. Oh, but I did enjoy the soundtrack quite a bit. Props to the musician there.

Score: 4 (would be lower, but I appreciate its ambitiousness too much to tank it)

Kinvesard: Epilogue of the Princess by Spoonweaver
Way too short for my liking, but that's a positive, for I want more. The quick and dirty response to this game is that I think it does everything right. The graphics are perfectly suited for the type of game it is, and the characters are well balanced, and it takes in consideration the fact that even the mushroom guy who only has 4HP to his name and dishes out little damage per hit can still survive the entirety of a battle and serve his compatriots well if positioned in the right spot (third slot seems to keep him alive the longest) and used the right way. I also thought the use of classes against the dungeon's "environmental" factors was also great. And the music, while I'm sure came from Soundsnap.com, energized the experience for me. I also appreciated the fact that, although the game is far from being complete, it does acknowledge the need for interactive characters in the presence of certain mythical NPCs outside the dungeon who sell or give our heroes items to use in their quest. (I also found a trident in the water in the southwest for my mer-person.) In a nutshell, I'm demanding this game get another release with a lot more content. It's great. Might be my favorite so far.

Score: 9

Dreg Sector: The Tract by Willy Elektrix
There's an underrated PC game I own and get a huge kick out of called Space Rangers (and its sequel, Space Rangers 2) that I have spent many hours playing and often looked forward to going back to again and again, where multiple game genres come together to form a living universe where five races join together to purge the galaxy of an evil race that's looking to exterminate all life everywhere. This game feels like the RPG clone of that one. In that franchise, you fly from solar system to solar system bartering with planets, engaging in battles with pirates and the games' primary evil race, recruiting wingmen, researching technologies, upgrading ships, exploring planets through text adventures and RTS battles, and surviving a dynamic universe that changes with each war. In Dreg Sector, you do much of the same things, but in a tighter box and simpler presentation.

What I like about the game is that you can choose which paths to journey and play it safe or go for broke and become a mercenary. Each planet has its own personality, and the number of locations you can visit per planet draws the player in. I also appreciate how the minimalist descriptions pull off the C.S. Lewis trick in capturing the full extent of the imagination without betraying the worlds it creates. In short, it does nothing wrong. It's just pure imaginative fun mixed with treacherous challenges and thought-provoking battles. This game provides one of the few OHR experiences where I really have to think through my choices before I commit to them. Simply firing a laser at an enemy ship may not necessarily buy me the time I need in battle. It racks my nerves in a good way.

I don't know how far I still have yet to go, but I will be spending more time with this one. It's also a good one to replay when the mood strikes. Great game.

Score: 9 (misses the perfect 10 because it feels just a tad gimmicky for the "Heart of the OHR")

NO MORE VILLAINS by Fenrir-Lunaris
My feelings about this game are polarized. On the one hand, I think it has an excellent presentation in all of its forms: story, graphics, and sound. I like that I can choose my party members near the end of the game. I like that, with the exception of the final boss (I think he's the final, but I still have to beat him, so I don't know), most of the battles are manageable. And I really like that it tries to blur the line between heroes and villains (I have a soft spot for stories like this). But, on the other hand, I feel like it has its hand in the cookie jar of other gimmick-driven contests, and I think that sidesteps the "heart of the OHR" a little too much for my liking.

As a game, I think it deserves high marks. It kept my interest all the way through, and it actually achieved the one thing that very few OHR games have been able to do -- it got me to not only care about the characters, but it got me to clench my teeth with anxiety when I knew someone I cared about was about to get axed. It was much darker than I had anticipated, which really made the humor inappropriate, and I would've been happier had it kept a serious tone throughout. But it didn't ruin the game for me, and given its resources, I could imagine that keeping it serious would've been difficult. And I thought the soundtrack was awesome (as is the case with most of Fenrir's games of late).

As a Heart of the OHR entry, I'm disappointed. Again, I think it captures the elements of an RPG, and it tells a great story (and does superbly what I've gathered to be the final hurrah for Fenrir's take on the OHR's heroes and villains). But tying it into the Terrible Games Contest, and using it as a podium to hype this contest, seems antithetical to what this contest is about. I guess it feels too much like a gimmick and less like an RPG, and that's where I feel somewhat cheated.

But...I don't think it deserves low marks for that. As a game, it still works, even if it's dangerously close to failing as an RPG. And though it's more narrative than exploratory, not once did I get bored with it, nor did I feel like I was wasting my time with it. Overall, I thought it was very well done, and in spite of it challenging the intention of this contest, it still managed to put in enough elements to keep it true to the expectations...for the most part at any rate.

Score: 8

Cool Guy Bob Surlaw by The Wobbler
Everything about this game is awesome. The visuals and the sound effects are top notch, but the presentation and the writing steal the show for me. The world of Walthros gets wackier and wackier every time we revisit it, and that's enough to keep me coming back for more. This new story with Bob and his "coolness" is a great addition to his history, and it's proof that sequels don't have to be anything like their predecessors to be fun or engaging. In fact, I think varying the storylines from sequel to sequel makes each installment, including the original, matter even more to the overall arc of the characters involved. The only thing about this game that I'm not a fan of, besides the fact that some areas are closed, is that I have to travel from "stage" to "stage" by menu rather than walk from map to map. I prefer exploration in an RPG, and this game bypasses much of that feeling for me. But it's not enough to ruin my impression of the game. I'm definitely looking forward to more in the coming year(s).

Score: 9

The K'hyurbhi Lands by FnrrfYgmSchnish
I've played up to the part where you overthrow King Numm, and I'm now venturing through the forest to the east. And I will be playing more of it soon. In short, I think this may be one of my favorites in the contest. It's one of the few entries that really understands the "Heart of the OHR." There's no real gimmick involved. It's just a pure RPG with colorful characters, fun story and presentation, and extremely polished visuals and gameplay. I love that you spend the first part of the game following each character along on his own journey of training, and then bring them all together for the first big fight against their sworn enemy. Classic RPG experience at its finest.

It's not without its flaws of course. The dialogue, specifically, gets a little too cheesy for its own good at times. And I think it misses a few logical points, like why the king's brother shows no sadness toward his demise and happily takes the crown on his defeat. I think the game would do better to pay attention to character emotion and logical follow-through with story points. But other than that, I think it captures the author's style perfectly and delivers everything I'd expect from the creator of Okedoke. I don't yet know how much more of the game there is to play, but it's another one I'll be looking forward to playing in its complete form. I'd put the fun factor up there with the original Walthros.

Score: 9

Silhouette by Mystic
This is another game that polarizes me -- why so many this time? Again, I like what it tries to do, and as a concept game I think it works great. But as a Heart of the OHR game, I think it's too much of a gimmick to really capture the spirit of this contest, and I'm not terribly supportive of it as an entry (though, it's far too late to disqualify it).

I agree with MSW that the game is more a puzzle than it is an RPG. Yes, it has random battles and status bars and all of the cosmetic staples. But I don't see any character growth. Getting through the dungeon requires intellect and problem solving skills (things I love in other contests), but not much luck, perseverance, or character growth. What I've played so far (up to the shield golem, which I still can't beat) challenges me to equip the right orbs in the right slots before certain battles or to solve a picture puzzle (I hate those by the way), and doesn't really reward my victories with stat changes or anything that makes me believe I'm progressing. How this works as a true RPG, I don't know.

Again, I think it's a neat game for what it is, and I like how it's presented. And the updated battle system is great and the music is awesome. But for the Heart of the OHR, it falls short for me.

Score: 6

Rereleased:

Abel by BlastedEarth
I have no idea what's new for this contest and what's been released before, but I echo, more or less, the opinions that Harlock had for the game. The aesthetic was great, and I liked the concept behind it. I don't echo the sentiments for cyberpunk -- I tend to get a little bored with the ones that feel apocalyptic -- but if done right, it'll keep my attention.

It's been a while since I've played it, and I've forgotten what the story is about already, and I need to refresh my memory before I give it a score. But I do recall liking it.

EDIT: Okay, I've refreshed my memory and I still like it. Though, I'd like it a lot more if it had felt more complete. It sort of reminds me of 2010's Apophenia with its early story, interesting atmosphere, and incomplete surrounding maps. I'm gonna see if I can talk the author into returning to the project. This one deserves more than it has.

Score: 6 (for now)

Final Dragon Legacy by mjohnson092088
Played an older version, but not the Heart of the OHR version yet.

EDIT: I made some time this week to finally sit down and give this game yet another try. After two previous attempts with older versions, I wasn't really looking forward to playing this one again, but I must say that the author finally realized that the introduction should be quick and easy to get through if he expects the player to stick around long enough to try out the real game and delivered on the promise to fix it. I daresay he went in the opposite direction and made the intro a little too easy now, but I'll live with it. What awaited me on the other side was a decent story of a boy looking for his missing father and the series of short adventures he takes in order to find him. And, like some of the other RPGs released for this contest, I thought the author balanced those adventures pretty well. None of them took particularly long to finish, and nothing was too difficult to find. I did find a couple of the dungeons nerve-racking, especially the tunnels under the castle that required me to flip a switch to unlock the gate, and that was a problem because the underground enemies didn't ramp well with the enemies trudging around the fields outside that town. But I still wanted to press on, so the game succeeded in bringing me back for more. Most everything about it is simplistic fun. I did find myself using spells in this game more often than I would normally want, but that's fine. Plowing through with swords and spears is just personal preference.

Do I think this game is awesome? No. I don't think it breaks new ground the way a few of the other RPGs in this contest do, but I still thought it was fun and worth a decent score. Because I never got far in the last version I played, I don't know where the new content begins, so my score reflects everything that comes after the introduction.

Score: 7

Legendary Heroes by Spoonweaver
This one I finished playing, and thought was as great as the first time I played it two years ago. I would've liked more to the game than what was added in the two years since its last release, but what I got was still enjoyable. I gave a more detailed account about what I liked and didn't like earlier in the thread.

Score: 7 (score based on the continuation of the game from the turtle boat on)

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