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Hmm, that works. I'll give that a shot.
Took a break from working on special features, the story, etc... and went and started working on enemies. I know how many monsters I need (Somewhere in the upper range of 300 or so) based on the different crafting items the player needs. Granted, I may decide to add more, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
Anywho, to keep myself organized, and to provide myself with a better overview of my enemies than Custom does, I decided to spreadsheet them. Then I thought to myself, "Why stop there?" and went and html'ed it, so I can provide it as a spoiler/walkthrough/whatever for the player should he want to view it.
If anyone wants a looksee, here are the enemies I've got worked out so far:
http://rpg.ld2i.net/images/Legacy/Monsters.html
That's all from me for now, cheers!
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:02 pm 
Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:29 pm
Neat.
Some of these elemental resists are quite weird. Why do golems absorb slash damage? Wights absorb blunt damage? And what's that mysterious "hack" element?
Some of these elemental resists are quite weird. Why do golems absorb slash damage? Wights absorb blunt damage? And what's that mysterious "hack" element?
Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:40 am
Le gasp! I had not noticed those, my spreadsheet has failed me!
All the elemental resists are calculated in a spreadsheet based on the "types" that I add to the enemy. The spreadsheet looks at the level of the enemy, a lookup table with the base resists for that type, and then calculates what that enemy's resists are by combining the data for all the different types it can have. I must have forgot to put a check to prevent the "physical" elements from going into the negatives.
Thanks for pointing that out, to the Gnumeric cave! nananananananananana
Edit: Oh, and the physical elements are thus:
Slash: Sabres, swords, knives, etc... anything that primarily does damage by slicing and cutting something, the way you would cut meat or veggies while cooking.
Pierce: Rapiers, arrows, spears, etc...
Blunt: Hammers, maces, clubs, etc...
Hack: Axes, falchions, swords, etc... anything that primarily does damage with heavy chopping attacks, the like taking an axe to a piece of wood. You're not slashing into the wood, but rather you're using the weight and heft of the axe to hack into it.
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
All the elemental resists are calculated in a spreadsheet based on the "types" that I add to the enemy. The spreadsheet looks at the level of the enemy, a lookup table with the base resists for that type, and then calculates what that enemy's resists are by combining the data for all the different types it can have. I must have forgot to put a check to prevent the "physical" elements from going into the negatives.
Thanks for pointing that out, to the Gnumeric cave! nananananananananana
Edit: Oh, and the physical elements are thus:
Slash: Sabres, swords, knives, etc... anything that primarily does damage by slicing and cutting something, the way you would cut meat or veggies while cooking.
Pierce: Rapiers, arrows, spears, etc...
Blunt: Hammers, maces, clubs, etc...
Hack: Axes, falchions, swords, etc... anything that primarily does damage with heavy chopping attacks, the like taking an axe to a piece of wood. You're not slashing into the wood, but rather you're using the weight and heft of the axe to hack into it.
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:15 am
So, grand total is now up to 75 different monsters.
Now, here's a question, palette swaps, necessarily a bad thing? Or justifiable laziness?
The working Legacy monster list
As you can see from that monster list, I do have quite a few palette swaps. I know other games, even big-title ones, do it, but that seems, to me, to be a very poor argument: "Final Fantasy did it, so I should be able to do it too!" On the other hand, getting the number of sprites I need without using palette swaps seems something more suited to Sisiphus and would easily drive anyone to madness. Especially considering that my list calls for at least 300 different monsters.
So, what's everyone think? Should I continue to use palette swaps? Perhaps limit the number of palette swaps used by a single monster? Get rid of palette swaps altogether?
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Now, here's a question, palette swaps, necessarily a bad thing? Or justifiable laziness?
The working Legacy monster list
As you can see from that monster list, I do have quite a few palette swaps. I know other games, even big-title ones, do it, but that seems, to me, to be a very poor argument: "Final Fantasy did it, so I should be able to do it too!" On the other hand, getting the number of sprites I need without using palette swaps seems something more suited to Sisiphus and would easily drive anyone to madness. Especially considering that my list calls for at least 300 different monsters.
So, what's everyone think? Should I continue to use palette swaps? Perhaps limit the number of palette swaps used by a single monster? Get rid of palette swaps altogether?
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:11 am
Take it from a guy who co-authored a game with 300+ enemies; use palette swaps. Definitely use them. We ended up with I think like 250 unique sprites, with maybe 50 or so palette swaps total, and we were also worried about if we were using too many...
...then we looked at the examples of some real professional games, and it's like - FF1 has something like 64 monsters, and not a single sprite besides the Fiends and Chaos that aren't palette-swapped. On the SNES, FF4 sometimes has as many as 7 palette-swaps of an enemy, often with swaps occurring on the same map! FF6 and CT extensively employ it as well, to the extent that the enemies who don't have a palette swap are the rare exception.
In any case, I know this was largely due to technical limitations, but my point is that I've never heard anyone fault those games for this, and I don't necessarily think they would have been substantially improved if it were otherwise. Making even the simplest game by yourself is a hellacious undertaking, and in my opinion, you should reserve the heaps of extra effort for areas where they will really matter the most to differentiate your game from others. From what I've read of your design in this thread, it certainly seems to me like you would be better served spending all that extra time refining the complexity of your many, many systems, rather than trying to eliminate palette swaps by churning out more enemy sprites. After all, the former is the real draw of your title, right?
TL;DR: palette swaps are fine.
EDIT: Btw, I know you said "FF did it" was a poor argument, but I used it anyway, because it's not.
SPELLSHARD: THE BLACK CROWN OF HORGOTH now COMPLETE! Grab it today!
...then we looked at the examples of some real professional games, and it's like - FF1 has something like 64 monsters, and not a single sprite besides the Fiends and Chaos that aren't palette-swapped. On the SNES, FF4 sometimes has as many as 7 palette-swaps of an enemy, often with swaps occurring on the same map! FF6 and CT extensively employ it as well, to the extent that the enemies who don't have a palette swap are the rare exception.
In any case, I know this was largely due to technical limitations, but my point is that I've never heard anyone fault those games for this, and I don't necessarily think they would have been substantially improved if it were otherwise. Making even the simplest game by yourself is a hellacious undertaking, and in my opinion, you should reserve the heaps of extra effort for areas where they will really matter the most to differentiate your game from others. From what I've read of your design in this thread, it certainly seems to me like you would be better served spending all that extra time refining the complexity of your many, many systems, rather than trying to eliminate palette swaps by churning out more enemy sprites. After all, the former is the real draw of your title, right?
TL;DR: palette swaps are fine.
EDIT: Btw, I know you said "FF did it" was a poor argument, but I used it anyway, because it's not.
SPELLSHARD: THE BLACK CROWN OF HORGOTH now COMPLETE! Grab it today!
Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:52 am
LOL! Draugr? It's from skyrim or there is any stories about it on the northen mythology?
"I can't buy food with glory"
"I can't buy food with glory"
Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:05 pm
Palette swaps it is then. Crikey but I still have quite a few to get through, hehe. Still, creating all of these enemies is rather fun.
I've never actually played Skyrim, though I do read up a great deal on mythology from other cultures and stuff. The draugr is from Viking/Norse mythology, what it is exactly varies depending on what you've read. In some cases it's a ghost, in others, it's a form of undead that can change its size greatly, allowing it to swallow things whole. That's why I have a draugr, and a a large draugr. When I get around to working on the battles and attacks, the normal draugr will, when alone, spawn a large draugr while at the same time removing itself from battle, as if it had shifted size.
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
misac wrote:
LOL! Draugr? It's from skyrim or there is any stories about it on the northen mythology?
I've never actually played Skyrim, though I do read up a great deal on mythology from other cultures and stuff. The draugr is from Viking/Norse mythology, what it is exactly varies depending on what you've read. In some cases it's a ghost, in others, it's a form of undead that can change its size greatly, allowing it to swallow things whole. That's why I have a draugr, and a a large draugr. When I get around to working on the battles and attacks, the normal draugr will, when alone, spawn a large draugr while at the same time removing itself from battle, as if it had shifted size.
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:16 pm
Quote:
In some cases it's a ghost, in others, it's a form of undead that can change its size greatly, allowing it to swallow things whole. That's why I have a draugr, and a a large draugr. When I get around to working on the battles and attacks, the normal draugr will, when alone, spawn a large draugr while at the same time removing itself from battle, as if it had shifted size.
Sounds great; I like stuff like this, gives the usual random battles a bit more strategic interest and flavor.
SPELLSHARD: THE BLACK CROWN OF HORGOTH now COMPLETE! Grab it today!
Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:18 pm
Hmm... seems intresting, i just can't wait to play legacy.
Keep up the good work
"I can't buy food with glory"
Keep up the good work
"I can't buy food with glory"
Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:18 am
BMR wrote:
When I get around to working on the battles and attacks, the normal draugr will, when alone, spawn a large draugr while at the same time removing itself from battle, as if it had shifted size.
This sounds like a job for... transmogrification!
Mega Tact v1.1
Super Penguin Chef
Wizard Blocks
Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:23 am
Mogri wrote:
That sounds like a job for... transmogrification!
Indeedy! I've mostly been working with scripts, text boxes, items, and maps, so I haven't delved too deeply into attacks and items. Just noticed the transmogrify option, looks like it'll be handy!.
And for a quick update, the Legacy Worldmap!
No way is that map going into the game, as I won't be able to make it small enough, yet readable enough. Still, I'll prolly include it with the distributed game.
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:40 am
Are Harkar and Hardakur related somehow? If not, maybe one of them could be named something else?
There seems to be some color confusion on that map. I can't tell what the orange on the map is supposed to represent - is it the pink of the theocracy?
I am Srime
There seems to be some color confusion on that map. I can't tell what the orange on the map is supposed to represent - is it the pink of the theocracy?
I am Srime
Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:47 am
Hmm, you're right, the colors are rather difficult to distinguish. I shall change them!
And yes, Harkar and Hardukur are related. In-story, they were the northernmost and southernmost cities of the ancient Theocracy, with Kamaron and Banware being the two ruling cities. Since then though, the Theocracy has expanded, and the two are no longer the border cities they once were.
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
And yes, Harkar and Hardukur are related. In-story, they were the northernmost and southernmost cities of the ancient Theocracy, with Kamaron and Banware being the two ruling cities. Since then though, the Theocracy has expanded, and the two are no longer the border cities they once were.
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:29 am
The first of my Character Bios!
Kay Berec
*
Stats
Background
Kay Berec, or simply "Kay" is the main protagonist of Legacy. He starts the game in a Theocracy dungeon cell, having been discarded there after being experimented on by his captors. Upon awakening, his memories of the experience are fuzzy, though he has enough grasp of his powers to manage to escape with the help of fellow prisoners.
Though free from the Theocracy for now, he falls under the dubious protection of the Resistance. Having little memory of who he was, he has no idea on whose side he should be fighting on. This too is a problem for the Resistance, as they don't know if Kay can be trusted. What they do know though, is that of all the magic users they've managed to rescue, Kay is the only one who has managed to retain his sanity after being experimented on by the Theocracy.
Is he then, the key to learning what the Theocracy is doing? Could he be their trump card in their battle? Or is he simply a pawn of the Theocracy, finally advancing through their ranks to the other side where he can do the most damage?
Only time will tell what, if any, Legacy his actions will leave behind.
Personality
Kay is, for the most part, reserved and quiet. This is not to say he doesn't have a sense of humor, but his experiences in the Theocracy dungeons have left him with few memories and he thus guards what he has very carefully. Of his new-found companions, Belor the Barbarian is perhaps closest to him, as he finds that despite the barbarian's rough appearance, he does not judge Kay nor does he seem to have any ulterior motives. The assassin Jaina is also close to Kay, as they aided each other in escaping the dungeons. The other members of the Resistance however, are not as trusting. Jaina's sister, Gayla, is reluctant to allow Kay aboard her ship, but does so eventually upon learning that Kay may just be the key they need to learn what it is the Theocracy is doing, and thus, finally destroy them.
Powers
As a Warlock, Kay's main offensive powers are blasts of arcane energy that hit with powerful concussive force. While he is capable of performing physical attacks, he is relatively frail and would much prefer to allow sturdier characters such as Belor take the brunt of the attack while he wreaks destruction upon the enemy from afar.
His attacks, unlike other magic users, consume relatively little energy. Warlocks, unlike other magic users, draw their power from the world around them and not from within themselves, thus allowing them to perform greater spells, for far longer. This translates, in-game, as having spells costs less MP. His spells though, very rarely, if ever, employ any elemental damage, thus sometimes negating his power when up against an enemy with strong elemental resistances.
Equipment
Kay's primary weapons are his rings. While he does not, technically, need the rings to cast magic, they allow him to focus and channel his magic. Certain rings may also be created that allow him to lend his attacks elemental damage that he would not otherwise have. Unlike the only other dedicated caster in the game, Molok the Acolyte, Kay can wear some basic light armor such as chain byrnies or lamellar armor.
*Note, character portraits are subject to change once I manage to draw better ones. Like I said before, I don't like that I'm using a portrait generator, so these portraits are mostly placeholders.
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Kay Berec
*
Stats
Background
Kay Berec, or simply "Kay" is the main protagonist of Legacy. He starts the game in a Theocracy dungeon cell, having been discarded there after being experimented on by his captors. Upon awakening, his memories of the experience are fuzzy, though he has enough grasp of his powers to manage to escape with the help of fellow prisoners.
Though free from the Theocracy for now, he falls under the dubious protection of the Resistance. Having little memory of who he was, he has no idea on whose side he should be fighting on. This too is a problem for the Resistance, as they don't know if Kay can be trusted. What they do know though, is that of all the magic users they've managed to rescue, Kay is the only one who has managed to retain his sanity after being experimented on by the Theocracy.
Is he then, the key to learning what the Theocracy is doing? Could he be their trump card in their battle? Or is he simply a pawn of the Theocracy, finally advancing through their ranks to the other side where he can do the most damage?
Only time will tell what, if any, Legacy his actions will leave behind.
Personality
Kay is, for the most part, reserved and quiet. This is not to say he doesn't have a sense of humor, but his experiences in the Theocracy dungeons have left him with few memories and he thus guards what he has very carefully. Of his new-found companions, Belor the Barbarian is perhaps closest to him, as he finds that despite the barbarian's rough appearance, he does not judge Kay nor does he seem to have any ulterior motives. The assassin Jaina is also close to Kay, as they aided each other in escaping the dungeons. The other members of the Resistance however, are not as trusting. Jaina's sister, Gayla, is reluctant to allow Kay aboard her ship, but does so eventually upon learning that Kay may just be the key they need to learn what it is the Theocracy is doing, and thus, finally destroy them.
Powers
As a Warlock, Kay's main offensive powers are blasts of arcane energy that hit with powerful concussive force. While he is capable of performing physical attacks, he is relatively frail and would much prefer to allow sturdier characters such as Belor take the brunt of the attack while he wreaks destruction upon the enemy from afar.
His attacks, unlike other magic users, consume relatively little energy. Warlocks, unlike other magic users, draw their power from the world around them and not from within themselves, thus allowing them to perform greater spells, for far longer. This translates, in-game, as having spells costs less MP. His spells though, very rarely, if ever, employ any elemental damage, thus sometimes negating his power when up against an enemy with strong elemental resistances.
Equipment
Kay's primary weapons are his rings. While he does not, technically, need the rings to cast magic, they allow him to focus and channel his magic. Certain rings may also be created that allow him to lend his attacks elemental damage that he would not otherwise have. Unlike the only other dedicated caster in the game, Molok the Acolyte, Kay can wear some basic light armor such as chain byrnies or lamellar armor.
*Note, character portraits are subject to change once I manage to draw better ones. Like I said before, I don't like that I'm using a portrait generator, so these portraits are mostly placeholders.
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:42 am
The fact that you've put so much work into your character's background and abilities alone has convinced me I should play this. I like how you start off with a dedicated caster as a main guy. Its a nice change of pace from the generic jack-of-all-trades.
Although one criticism; the battle sprites just scream "gotta DANCE!" to me. The dainty pose he's striking with that left arm seems awkward and overly effeminate. If that's what you're going for, tho, I'll just apologize and go sit in the corner.
—- So anyway, how are you?
Although one criticism; the battle sprites just scream "gotta DANCE!" to me. The dainty pose he's striking with that left arm seems awkward and overly effeminate. If that's what you're going for, tho, I'll just apologize and go sit in the corner.
—- So anyway, how are you?