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Text adventures are still totally games and it's silly to argue otherwise.
Super Walrus Land: Mouth Words Edition
Thu May 10, 2012 12:49 pm 
Thu May 10, 2012 2:15 pm
The whole argument about effort being part of the definition of art is really interesting. It is true that most art does involve a lot of work, but that isn't what makes it art. Kinda like how most Chili has meat, but it isn't the meat that defines what Chili is ;)
There is another end to that spectrum too. A blank canvas with a tiny dot on it that took almost no effort can be presented as art... but an artist could go to the other extreme of the spectrum too. I know and artist who makes giant colorful paintings with colored chalk and watercolor and other things, and then when he is finished with them, he painstakingly burns them to shreds using a magnifying glass. By the time he is finished and ready to show it to anyone else, 90% of the canvas is completely burned away to nothing, and nobody but the artist will ever even see what was on it.
Also, I think it is no coincidence that discussion about the definition of Art are related to discussions about what a Game is. The two definitions are similarly elusive. I love thinking about concepts like Art, and Fun and Games and Love and Life that are easy to grasp on an emotional level, but that persistently defy precise boundaries.
EDIT: and Chili too
There is another end to that spectrum too. A blank canvas with a tiny dot on it that took almost no effort can be presented as art... but an artist could go to the other extreme of the spectrum too. I know and artist who makes giant colorful paintings with colored chalk and watercolor and other things, and then when he is finished with them, he painstakingly burns them to shreds using a magnifying glass. By the time he is finished and ready to show it to anyone else, 90% of the canvas is completely burned away to nothing, and nobody but the artist will ever even see what was on it.
Also, I think it is no coincidence that discussion about the definition of Art are related to discussions about what a Game is. The two definitions are similarly elusive. I love thinking about concepts like Art, and Fun and Games and Love and Life that are easy to grasp on an emotional level, but that persistently defy precise boundaries.
EDIT: and Chili too
Thu May 10, 2012 2:54 pm
So what DOES factor in to calling something chili? There's an Indian place near me that sometimes has this 'vegetable-chili' in the buffet, and it doesn't look like anything I would have ever called chili, but there it is. It has a slight spiciness to it. Is that part of the definition??? These are important questions.
To get back on topic to the other (slightly less) important question, I'll take a shot in the dark after reading some of these comments. How about, if the primary purpose is simply to make people think or feel something, it is art. Of course this is a subjective definition (you might say that Nickelback's music's primary purpose in its creation is intellectual or emotional, and I'd be inclined to disagree), but it's not much more subjective than any other non-mathematical definition really.
Then a lot of things are art, and you go into what is good and what is bad, and since your original definition is subjective, of course this will be too. Just like the taste of food, there will probably be some very general agreements (most amateur paintings aren't as good as Monet, and most fast food burgers aren't as good as most five-star restaurant roast lamb), but even with those there will be people who disagree. In most cases, art (or food) that takes more effort to create (or prepare) will be better, but there can always be surprises (that amazing lasagna was a microwave dinner??!).
Also note that this analogy extends to the language of negation. If something tastes REALLY bad, we say it's not 'real' food. If we think a piece of art sucks REALLY bad, we say it's not 'real' art. Does the crappy object still qualify as food/art? Who cares?! It sucks!
I am Srime
To get back on topic to the other (slightly less) important question, I'll take a shot in the dark after reading some of these comments. How about, if the primary purpose is simply to make people think or feel something, it is art. Of course this is a subjective definition (you might say that Nickelback's music's primary purpose in its creation is intellectual or emotional, and I'd be inclined to disagree), but it's not much more subjective than any other non-mathematical definition really.
Then a lot of things are art, and you go into what is good and what is bad, and since your original definition is subjective, of course this will be too. Just like the taste of food, there will probably be some very general agreements (most amateur paintings aren't as good as Monet, and most fast food burgers aren't as good as most five-star restaurant roast lamb), but even with those there will be people who disagree. In most cases, art (or food) that takes more effort to create (or prepare) will be better, but there can always be surprises (that amazing lasagna was a microwave dinner??!).
Also note that this analogy extends to the language of negation. If something tastes REALLY bad, we say it's not 'real' food. If we think a piece of art sucks REALLY bad, we say it's not 'real' art. Does the crappy object still qualify as food/art? Who cares?! It sucks!
I am Srime
Thu May 10, 2012 3:22 pm
Ha, this turned into a fun discussion 
I think I'll move it to it's own thread, though, so we can continue to use this one for the collaboration project.
Email contributions to the OHR Collab project to:
ohrcollab@gmail.com
All contributions will be recorded in the credits.
I think I'll move it to it's own thread, though, so we can continue to use this one for the collaboration project.
Email contributions to the OHR Collab project to:
ohrcollab@gmail.com
All contributions will be recorded in the credits.
Thu May 10, 2012 10:37 pm
If no one objects, I'd like to try and make this effort a little more organised. I'd also like to promote myself to visual/art director, unless there are any objections. I'm also prepared to do some sound design and audio work.
So, to clarify - who is doing what, and when is it due? Once we have a more definite story outline, it'll be easier to allocate and prioritise the work that needs to be done.
So, to clarify - who is doing what, and when is it due? Once we have a more definite story outline, it'll be easier to allocate and prioritise the work that needs to be done.
Thu May 10, 2012 11:44 pm
I'm on tiles. No idea when it's due though.
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Thu May 10, 2012 11:53 pm
Which theme are you working on? What would be a comfortable amount of time needed for you before submitting a draft to us?
Fri May 11, 2012 2:21 am
Right now, working on a general theme for the non-theme-affiliated parts of the artscape. Give me a week or so.
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Fri May 11, 2012 2:26 am
Swamp Troll wrote:
If no one objects, I'd like to try and make this effort a little more organised. I'd also like to promote myself to visual/art director, unless there are any objections. I'm also prepared to do some sound design and audio work.
Good idea, go right ahead.
I'm going to write the story outline tonight to give us something to work from, but afterwards I'm fine with stepping down and letting someone else take the lead in writing.
However, I feel obligated to take project lead since I started this mess (aw who'm I kidding, I want to be project lead
).
Here are some positions we still need help with:
- Sprite Artists
- Level Designers
- Item Designers
- Dialogue Writers
- Story Writers
- Battle/Enemy/Hero/Attack Designers
- Scripters
If I left anything out, please mention it.
Again, we'll take any contributions the community is willing to make, but I guarantee you we'll have a better game if we volunteer to do specific things.
Don't be fooled into thinking this will be a huge amount of work. For one person, yes it will be, but the more bodies we have the faster our progress will be (and the better our final project).
Think about it this way. If one of us invested a few hours each week to design just two enemies until we released the game, that would 100 enemies. If one person spent a week making one map, that would be 50 maps.
If we had even 5 people lending a hand consistently, even using just a little bit of free time, we could have very decent game by next year.
Also, to all of our new members, and those who've been lurking the forums that aren't that experienced with the engine or the game design process, now's an excellent time to step up and learn
Think about it, and post if you want to volunteer. I think we're on our way to making a very great game that we can all be proud of.
I'll post more realistic deadlines when I finish the script tonight.
Email contributions to the OHR Collab project to:
ohrcollab@gmail.com
All contributions will be recorded in the credits.
Fri May 11, 2012 5:19 am
OHR Collaboration Project 2012 Script
Game X
Draft: 1
Tag Line – “Art must be destroyed.”
Overview:
Society challenges the definition of art for a passionate artist named Civil Rill, so she challenges society... by destroying a rival artist’s exhibit.
Society wins, however and sends her to jail. While there, she dreams of a world called the Artscape, where all the art ever made coexists in a magical landscape with history’s greatest artists.
Civil soon learns that the Artscape is more than a dream, however, and that not all is well there. The art which tormented Civil in real life now torments her and her friends in the Artscape. Unable to tolerate the insult of this radical new art, she and her friends now seek to destroy it.
Setting:
During the rise in popularity of Postmodern art (date?). In a magical realm called the Artscape, which consists of all the art ever made.
Characters:
Civil Rill – F – A young artist with a very modern style. She’s full of creative energy and a very black-and-white thinker. Unfortunately, she can also be somewhat spiteful herself, and she’s a common practitioner of disproportionate retribution. Her life’s goal is to make prevent artists from falling prey to the philosophies of postmodernism which she believes to be childish.
Leonardo DaVinci – M – The famous Renaissance Man himself who seeks to end the conflict this new art has with the old. He is, like depictions of the real life artist, very kind, very intelligent, and very strong.
Characters that need to be developed:
Impressionist artist: Paul Cézanne;
Cubist artist: Georges Braque;
Modernist artist: Joan Miró;
Dada artist: Max Ernst.
Outline:
ACT 1
Civil Rill is a young female artist with a very modernist style. After losing one too many art competitions to postmodern artists, having to listen to postmodernists chide her, and watching giant blank canvases sell for several times what her elaborate creations do, she finally snaps and destroys one of her rivals exhibits.
She is arrested and has to spend the night in jail.
While there, her dreams become very strange. She enters a world that consists of all of the art she’s ever created. As she it explores it more, however, she begins to discover art from famous artists that isn’t hers, then she sees art that she’s never seen before.
This is where the game begins, in media res.
Opening cutscene shows establishing shot of Civil’s realm in the Artscape. Text of her reaction to seeing it the first time. She doesn’t actually know where she is or how she got there. The player takes control of Civil, walking around in her realm. By examining objects and passing by certain works of art in her scape, she begins to recall the event which put her in jail, giving the player some background info, establishing Civil’s character, and setting-up the conflict between her and the Postmodernists.
As she is exploring, she runs across a creature similar to the artwork of her rival in real life. She remembers it as the work she destroyed in the art museum. It attacks her, so she tears it shreds just like she did in real life.
Afterwards, more of the artist’s art that she destroyed begins to appear and attack her. Before she is overwhelmed, however, a man in a flying machine appears and rescues her. It’s Leonardo DaVinci in the famous helicopter thing he designed.
Leo tells Civil about the Artscape and how more and more artists are being tormented. Civil ask how she can help, confessing her own desire to protect the integrity of art from postmodernism. Leo tells her about the Deildinni (Icelandic for “League” (my current replacement for the League of Artists)) and how they work to keep artists free from creative conflict (conflict between artists, not the conflict with self when creating).
Leo takes Civil to the Deildinni’s shared creative realm called the Concursum (Latin for ‘convergence,’ I’ve been having fun with google translate tonight).
When they arrive, however, the Concursum has come under attack by Postmodern art (that sounds more ridiculous every time I write it). Civil has to aid the Deildinni by “inspiring the enemy artists.” (Perhaps there is an idea for a game function here? (Or we could simply have her smash paintings. I’m at a creative standstill on how this should work at the moment)).
After beating up the postmodernists, Civil is granted an audience with the Deildinni. They tell her how they want to stop the Postmodernists from attacking other art forms, but cannot because they do not know where they’re realm is (which is unlike any other form of art).
Long story short, she is recruited by them to find the realm of the Postmodernists so that they can keep their influence in check.
The only clues they can offer you are the places where their offensive activity has been the greatest.
The realms of:
1. Impressionism
2. Cubism
3. Modernism
4. Dada
Act 2
Consists of traveling to these realms, dungeon crawling, and finding clues about the PoMos. This is the modular story design area that other community areas can write.
Act 3
After gathering sufficient clues and allies to help her, Civil and her friends realize that the only way to reach the PoMos is to break the 4th wall. After much preparation (perhaps another dungeon or so), they reach the mythical 4th wall and break through into the Tate Modern. From here, we can go many ways. For now, let’s say that they fight the PoMo leaders, and when they defeat them they teach them a lesson about different art forms coexisting.
I’m tired of writing for the night, so tear this apart and come up with good ideas for the gaps in the plot
Email contributions to the OHR Collab project to:
ohrcollab@gmail.com
All contributions will be recorded in the credits.
Game X
Draft: 1
Tag Line – “Art must be destroyed.”
Overview:
Society challenges the definition of art for a passionate artist named Civil Rill, so she challenges society... by destroying a rival artist’s exhibit.
Society wins, however and sends her to jail. While there, she dreams of a world called the Artscape, where all the art ever made coexists in a magical landscape with history’s greatest artists.
Civil soon learns that the Artscape is more than a dream, however, and that not all is well there. The art which tormented Civil in real life now torments her and her friends in the Artscape. Unable to tolerate the insult of this radical new art, she and her friends now seek to destroy it.
Setting:
During the rise in popularity of Postmodern art (date?). In a magical realm called the Artscape, which consists of all the art ever made.
Characters:
Civil Rill – F – A young artist with a very modern style. She’s full of creative energy and a very black-and-white thinker. Unfortunately, she can also be somewhat spiteful herself, and she’s a common practitioner of disproportionate retribution. Her life’s goal is to make prevent artists from falling prey to the philosophies of postmodernism which she believes to be childish.
Leonardo DaVinci – M – The famous Renaissance Man himself who seeks to end the conflict this new art has with the old. He is, like depictions of the real life artist, very kind, very intelligent, and very strong.
Characters that need to be developed:
Impressionist artist: Paul Cézanne;
Cubist artist: Georges Braque;
Modernist artist: Joan Miró;
Dada artist: Max Ernst.
Outline:
ACT 1
Civil Rill is a young female artist with a very modernist style. After losing one too many art competitions to postmodern artists, having to listen to postmodernists chide her, and watching giant blank canvases sell for several times what her elaborate creations do, she finally snaps and destroys one of her rivals exhibits.
She is arrested and has to spend the night in jail.
While there, her dreams become very strange. She enters a world that consists of all of the art she’s ever created. As she it explores it more, however, she begins to discover art from famous artists that isn’t hers, then she sees art that she’s never seen before.
This is where the game begins, in media res.
Opening cutscene shows establishing shot of Civil’s realm in the Artscape. Text of her reaction to seeing it the first time. She doesn’t actually know where she is or how she got there. The player takes control of Civil, walking around in her realm. By examining objects and passing by certain works of art in her scape, she begins to recall the event which put her in jail, giving the player some background info, establishing Civil’s character, and setting-up the conflict between her and the Postmodernists.
As she is exploring, she runs across a creature similar to the artwork of her rival in real life. She remembers it as the work she destroyed in the art museum. It attacks her, so she tears it shreds just like she did in real life.
Afterwards, more of the artist’s art that she destroyed begins to appear and attack her. Before she is overwhelmed, however, a man in a flying machine appears and rescues her. It’s Leonardo DaVinci in the famous helicopter thing he designed.
Leo tells Civil about the Artscape and how more and more artists are being tormented. Civil ask how she can help, confessing her own desire to protect the integrity of art from postmodernism. Leo tells her about the Deildinni (Icelandic for “League” (my current replacement for the League of Artists)) and how they work to keep artists free from creative conflict (conflict between artists, not the conflict with self when creating).
Leo takes Civil to the Deildinni’s shared creative realm called the Concursum (Latin for ‘convergence,’ I’ve been having fun with google translate tonight).
When they arrive, however, the Concursum has come under attack by Postmodern art (that sounds more ridiculous every time I write it). Civil has to aid the Deildinni by “inspiring the enemy artists.” (Perhaps there is an idea for a game function here? (Or we could simply have her smash paintings. I’m at a creative standstill on how this should work at the moment)).
After beating up the postmodernists, Civil is granted an audience with the Deildinni. They tell her how they want to stop the Postmodernists from attacking other art forms, but cannot because they do not know where they’re realm is (which is unlike any other form of art).
Long story short, she is recruited by them to find the realm of the Postmodernists so that they can keep their influence in check.
The only clues they can offer you are the places where their offensive activity has been the greatest.
The realms of:
1. Impressionism
2. Cubism
3. Modernism
4. Dada
Act 2
Consists of traveling to these realms, dungeon crawling, and finding clues about the PoMos. This is the modular story design area that other community areas can write.
Act 3
After gathering sufficient clues and allies to help her, Civil and her friends realize that the only way to reach the PoMos is to break the 4th wall. After much preparation (perhaps another dungeon or so), they reach the mythical 4th wall and break through into the Tate Modern. From here, we can go many ways. For now, let’s say that they fight the PoMo leaders, and when they defeat them they teach them a lesson about different art forms coexisting.
I’m tired of writing for the night, so tear this apart and come up with good ideas for the gaps in the plot
Email contributions to the OHR Collab project to:
ohrcollab@gmail.com
All contributions will be recorded in the credits.
Fri May 11, 2012 5:20 am
Go ahead and discuss due dates. I didn't have time to think about them much. It's been a very busy day and I'm pooped :P
Email contributions to the OHR Collab project to:
ohrcollab@gmail.com
All contributions will be recorded in the credits.
Email contributions to the OHR Collab project to:
ohrcollab@gmail.com
All contributions will be recorded in the credits.
Fri May 11, 2012 12:34 pm
I've got some basic tiles done (walls, floors, etc...) but I found that I can't go any further with other tiles (tables, chairs, other embellishments) until I get a walkabout sprite. That way, I can make sure everything is to scale, wouldn't want a table I draw to accidentally be twice the height of the walkabout.
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Fri May 11, 2012 1:25 pm
We'll stick to 20X20s. It's just easier. I'll start working on some walkabouts and try to have them ready this weekend. Then I'll do some enemy sprites and other concept art.
What do you say to us having some basic graphics done by next weekend to show everyone?
Email contributions to the OHR Collab project to:
ohrcollab@gmail.com
All contributions will be recorded in the credits.
What do you say to us having some basic graphics done by next weekend to show everyone?
Email contributions to the OHR Collab project to:
ohrcollab@gmail.com
All contributions will be recorded in the credits.
Fri May 11, 2012 1:29 pm
Example walkabout:
Drew this a long time ago for a different game, but I like the design for Civil.
Critique welcome. This is how I draw most of my walkabouts.
Email contributions to the OHR Collab project to:
ohrcollab@gmail.com
All contributions will be recorded in the credits.
Drew this a long time ago for a different game, but I like the design for Civil.
Critique welcome. This is how I draw most of my walkabouts.
Email contributions to the OHR Collab project to:
ohrcollab@gmail.com
All contributions will be recorded in the credits.
Fri May 11, 2012 1:35 pm
Righto, I'll use that sprite to scale things. The walls and floors are scaled to 20x20 sprites, but I needed the height of the walkabout (shoulder, waist, etc...) to properly do tables and stuff.
Thanks, I'll have some sample work up by next Saturday at the latest!
EDIT: Would anyone mind if I took some compatible graphics (walls, floors, etc...) from Legacy? Or would it be better to have everything completely unique to this game?
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl
Thanks, I'll have some sample work up by next Saturday at the latest!
EDIT: Would anyone mind if I took some compatible graphics (walls, floors, etc...) from Legacy? Or would it be better to have everything completely unique to this game?
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.
Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl