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Slime Knight
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 PostSun May 06, 2012 7:14 pm
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Hmm, I just realized I can't pm multiple people. No big deal, though. I was wanting to keep plot spoilers to a minimum, but that doesn't make much sense if this is to be a community project.

Here's the idea I was working on this morning:

Quote:
Setting is an abstract dimension that consists of all the art ever made. Every artist has their own projection of their minds in this realm, but only a few artist are capable of travelling between each other’s minds (or even being aware that they are in this realm to begin with).

It’s called, the Artscape. We could probably come up with a better name.

An artist, calling him Charles at the moment, begins to have a breakdown after his work is blasted by critics. He goes home, defeated and broken, barely conscious. He feels so bad that he's even considering suicide. However, he doesn't have the energy to even get out of his bed and instead, he falls asleep.

In what he believes are his dreams, he enters what appears to be an imaginary realm constructed of his own art. He notices in the landscape a part of everything he has created, from his first doodles to his latest works, remembering something about each of them.

However, Charles’s dream ceases to feel dreamy when a strange, twisted creature that he never would have created himself appears and attacks him (1st Battle). Our artist does not know what to do, but, out of nowhere, Leonardo Da Vinci appears and fights with him. My dialogue idea for this scripted sequence:

ARTIST: “WHAT’S HAPPENING?!”
LEO: “YOUR CREATIVE MIND IS BEING INVADED BY POSTMODERNISM!!”
ARTIST: “WHAT DO I DO?!?!”
LEO: “BEAT THE SNOT OF IT!! SOMETIMES ART NEEDS TO BE DESTROYED!!”

After defeating the crazy creature, Leo reveals to our artist the nature of the Artscape, and that the reason Charles is able to be here is due to how much he values his artwork - to the point of considering suicide because a critic bashed him.

Only artists who reach this level of dedication are able to ascend into the Artscape.

Leo then tells him about the rampant spread of terrible art forms thanks to Marcel Duchamp (the guy who hung the urinal in an art museum), and that how he needs to be stopped before all of the art world is consumed.

Charles tries to argue free expression of art, etc., but Leo tells him that he misunderstands. The Postmodernists are actually trying to attack everyone else’s art by traversing the Artscape and smashing their thoughts.

Leo convinces Charles to come with him to the Siège de L'art (french for ‘seat of art’) to meet the League of Artists (this name needs to change, too).

Charles meets the League, consisting of a bunch of famous artists, I don’t know who all, yet. They tell him about the Postmodernists and how they need more help trying to find where Marcel Duchamp is hiding. The Artscape is so big that it’s nearly impossible to travel all of, and very easy to hide inside it.

Now, the player’s goal as Charles is to travel the Artscape, hunting down Postmodernists. I’m thinking we pick 5-8 of our favorite artists/art styles and base the areas in the game around these styles. Also, these artists can be recruited to the player’s party to help them take down Postmodernism.

Here’s a good source of artists and art movements to check out :
http://totallyhistory.com/art-history/famous-artists/

Some other ideas :
1. At some point, I think it would be cool for Charles and Marcel Duchamp to meet in private, or maybe with Marcel’s group of Postmodernists, and explain to Charles how the Postmodernists aren’t trying to force everyone to conform to their art. Instead, they’re trying to free art from the constraints imposed by the League of Artists. The player could choose to fight for either side, then, and the game could turn into a unique form of La Resistance vs. The Empire.
2. I was thinking we cover at least some more well-known and unique artists. My list currently consists of:
a. Salvador Dahli - http://totallyhistory.com/salvador-dali/
b. Paul Gauguin - http://totallyhistory.com/paul-gauguin/
c. Georgia O’Keefe - http://totallyhistory.com/georgia-o-keefe/
d. Norman Rockwell - http://totallyhistory.com/norman-rockwell/
e. El Greco - http://totallyhistory.com/el-greco/
f. Pablo Picasso - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pablo_picasso
3. At some point, I think it would be a cool idea for someone like Andy Warhol to serve as an Ultros-like character.
4. I think a fun path to take the player down when hunting Duchamp (or whoever our main antagonist becomes), would be to have them break the fourth wall, like a literal giant wall and discover what’s on the other side. Maybe have a lot of lore and myth built up around the wall and have NPCs saying something like ‘Legend has it that when Duchamp broke through, what he found on the other side drove him mad.’
5. The final battle should be in a urinal (if we stick with Duchamp).


There you have it. There’s still a lot left to decide, but we have the luxury have having a subject that’s very easy to research and understand visually.

Also, we can use just about any graphics that are submitted to us if we include abstract art styles Smile

Feel free to provide any feedback you like, and don’t be afraid to critque harshly. I’m a journalist, I’m used to it.
Blubber Bloat
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 PostSun May 06, 2012 11:23 pm
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Souuuuuuuuuuuuunds fanceh! Grin

I've been feeling rather carpy these past few days, but I'll get on drawing things.
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
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Metal Slime
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 PostMon May 07, 2012 1:37 am
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Please include a battle against one of those painting elephants. That would be awesome! Kamina
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Slime Knight
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 PostMon May 07, 2012 3:05 am
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LOL! If you mean this, then hell yes Grin
Slime Knight
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 PostMon May 07, 2012 11:54 pm
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Some quickly scribbled graphic ideas:

Attempts at impressionist brush-strokes:


A cool enemy sprite idea:


Inspired by:
Liquid Metal Slime
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 PostTue May 08, 2012 12:31 am
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I (mostly) love the idea you're running with, but I do have a few suggestions.

1. This should be a quasi-serious game. "Beating the snot" out of anything is going to ruin the aesthetic. If you're gonna make an artist game, then the dialogue should sound pretentious. Pretend like you're listening to bad college poetry to the beat of a bongo. That's how the dialogue should be. Leave the juvenile humor out.

2. The idea that the artist's dedication to his craft is so severe that he'd commit suicide to a critic's bashing is a little off-kilter. Sorry, but that just makes him look ridiculous as a hero. Also, based on this description, I wonder why he needs to defeat other people's artwork to ascend the Artscape if criticism is such a driving force. I think the story needs some tweaking. I'll give my advice below.

3. The Artscape is an okay name, but I still think it should be called The Da Vinci Ultimatum. Way cooler in my opinion.

For the story, I think Charles needs to believe in something bigger than his own artwork for his journey to make sense. Is he criticizing the critic's right to criticize? Is he rebelling against the institution of criticism as a whole? I'd think the journey into the Artscape is to prove whether the critic has a right to judge, or if art itself is subjective. Or, if the critic's story point is not your goal, then maybe the Artscape represents not only the artist's dedication to art, but the journey art takes from dreams to canvas. Or, more interestingly, it might represent the last vestige of the postmodern era, its struggle to maintain relevance, and the artist it chooses to defend its right to survive (a bit more RPG-ish, but it still makes for an interesting story).

Feeding off the critic's point of view, you say that Charles's mission is to defeat other people's bad artwork. Doesn't that, in a sense, make him into a critic? Who's to say that the art is bad? Or, is the entire journey (again) a criticism on criticism? These are questions I'd like to see addressed in the development of the story.

The endgame in the urinal is perfect, though. No arguments there.
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Slime Knight
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 PostTue May 08, 2012 12:46 am
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Okay, a collection of thoughts:

In terms of story structure, it might be advantageous to split the Artscape (fantastic name and concept) in different regions or orders. I propose one way to do this would be something like this:

1) Impressionist;
2) Cubist;
3) Abstract Modernist;
4) Dadaisms;
5) POSTMODERNIST.

They don't have to be in this order, but it would offer a means to easily structure the story and create a sense of progression. Each region would have a specific aim, and upon completion the player is instructed to visit whichever other region to do something else. To elaborate on them:

1) This is self-explanatory. Monet, Renoir, Raffaëlli, Manet, etc. Lots of soft, indistinct shapes.
2) Hard lines, geometric shapes, hinting at familiar objects, without being fully explicit. Think of Picasso, Barque, Cézanne and Gris. This area could be a whole lot of fun!
3) Abstract Modernists. Pollock, Hofmann, Newman, Rothko. This would be a totally alien area - visually chaotic.
4) Dadaisms - Dalí, Höch, Ernst, Magritte. A different kind of chaos to the Abstract Modernists. Everything is suggestive, without being explicit. Expect lots of paradoxical images, internal logic, and extremely bizarre NPCs!
5) POSTMODERNIST. This might be hard to pull off, but could be effective. It should be very eclectic, with lots of references to all sorts of different things. There are literally hundreds of artists working in this medium who have no historic precedence, and will probably never exhibit more than once or twice. Take your pick!

I'm concerned that postmodernism, and especially Duchamp, is the suggested protagonist. I think the issue with 'concept art' isn't the art itself, but rather the group of bandits who have effectively ruined it for everyone. Need I point fingers?

It might be more elegant to have a specific group of 'PoMo' artists who are attacking other arts forms to eradicate them from history - as such, their art will then seem more unique, and ultimately, more valuable. This could also give the opportunity to have the player battle several final bosses and then the ring leader.

As such, you can set Duchamp up as the villain, and in an elaborate twist near the end, discover that he is actually not the culprit - belonging not to the PoMos, but actually the Dadaists. It is still possible to allow the player to choose a side at this point - 'cash in' with the crooks, or fight for historical art.

I like the 4th wall idea a lot. Imagine if they broke the 4th wall and they emerged in the Turbine Hall!
Slime Knight
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 PostTue May 08, 2012 1:36 am
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While I'm still sober...

@ Pepsi - I can always count on you to give good input. I'll be taking those points into consideration.

The one thing I'm not sure about, though, is the 'pretentions' air to the game. Definitely needs to be there in some parts, but I'd like the atmosphere to lean more towards 'discovery' and 'creativity.' Granted, there's no reason those two themes could not coexist.

As for the "juvenile humor," I agree that it should not overpower the dialogue. However, that dialogue was not meant to come off as juvenile, but rugged/unrefined instead. I was playing around with Leo's character as being opposite of what most people would imagine he was like, but that may not work well with story.

I really shouldn't have included that line of dialogue with this outline anyway. I wasn't thinking of how easy it would be to judge the rest of the story based on that one line, but since it happened, I'll need to be more considerate later.

@ Swamp Troll - The division of the Artscape into different regions was my intention as well. I think sticking to a linear format is a must for this project. Any diversion we make from the linear model should probably be minimal.

Also, I'm not exactly an art history expert, so I'm having to do some research to understand some of your other suggestions. I like the idea of the Turbine Hall, though Smile

It's good that you're interested in this plot, you're expertise will be very helpful. Any suggested reading for me?
Slime Knight
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 PostTue May 08, 2012 2:15 am
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'Postmodernism: A very short introduction' by Chris Butler is excellent. 'After Modern Art: 1945-2000' by David Hopkins is good for PoMo and Modernism. For Dada stuff I'd say look at 'Shock and the senseless in Dada and Fluxus' by Dorothée Brill. That'll give you some real insight into the more challenging aspects of each of those distinct movements. A decent general art history book should help you see how they're all related.
Metal King Slime
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 PostTue May 08, 2012 2:22 am
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I assume we'll be using the default OHRRPGCE palette? Or will each area have a different palette?
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.

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Slime Knight
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 PostTue May 08, 2012 10:44 am
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@ Swamp Troll - Thanks, I'll check them out.

@ BMR - Sticking to one palette would definitely make graphics sharing easier. I'm fine with the OHR default, but if we want to use a different palette, it's probably a good idea to change now.

Unless swapping between palettes is not as difficult as I remember.
Metal King Slime
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 PostTue May 08, 2012 12:41 pm
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Righteo then, I'll throw something together over the next couple of weeks. I'll try to make distinct tiles for each of the different art styles. Are we going to be using the walktall scripts? Or are the walkabout sprites going to be 20x20? So I can do scale appropriately.
Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.

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Slime Knight
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 PostTue May 08, 2012 1:02 pm
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I'd say 20x20. Less drawing and scripting for us Smile
Slime Knight
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 PostTue May 08, 2012 2:16 pm
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I totally missed Pepsi's post when I wrote my own, which is a shame, so I will now respond with my own ideas and opinions.

I think Pepsi is absolutely right about the 'hero' needing a driving force, and one such way to do this would be to define him as a hardcore modernist - reacting against the influence of PoMo. This could very easily set him apart from the opposing forces and give him a personal, professional, and ethical reason to resist their aesthetic advances. And, it also legitimises (only in a certain way) his attacking and destroying 'historical art'. One potential problem is how you communicate the central ideas of modernism (and post-modernism) in a video game, but I am certain it would entirely possible, it'll just require some finess and delicacy.

If I also understand Pepsi correct, he dislikes the name Artscape for the game(?) I agree Artscape isn't the best name for the game, but it's absolutely perfect for the name of the in game world. I personally am not convinced by 'The Da Vinci Ultimatum' - just my opinion.

I agree that having a suicidal tendency doesn't suit a hero, but does the player actually have to perform as a hero? Artists have a distinct tendency to be neurotic, and this certainly satisfies that credential. Perhaps the player can be a sort of anti-hero?
Slime Knight
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 PostTue May 08, 2012 3:14 pm
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Swamp Troll wrote:
...one such way to do this would be to define him as a hardcore modernist - reacting against the influence of PoMo. This could very easily set him apart from the opposing forces and give him a personal, professional, and ethical reason to resist their aesthetic advances.


Just from the little bit of reading I've been doing, I can see this being an excellent idea. It looks like there's not just the conflict of artistic expression happening here, but also a conflict between the artists' core values, a crisis among belief systems if you will.

I think the best way to go about communicating the ideas behind these art movements is through the characters' dialogue, then using visuals to reinforce certain concepts.

The whole suicide thing can be tossed out the window, I'm not exactly attached to it either. It was just the first idea that popped into my head when I was reaching for drama.

I'm also not too worried about our title at the moment. I think it will come later, once we know more about the story we're writing.

Also, I think our story will definitely follow from the art styles we decide to implement in our maps and sprites, so I think we need to settle on what those are going to be soon.

What do you think of including one or two major movements that reflect each period in the evolution of art from the Classical period to the beginnings of Postmodernism? Or maybe narrow it further from the Renaissance to Postmodernism? We could use this as a framework for an exposition on criticism and how our characters develop their own artistic opinions.

Whatever we decide, we need to consider not only philosophical differences among our styles, but also visual differences. They need to be distinct enough for players who know nothing about art to be able to tell the difference between the dada and abstract modernist worlds, for example.

EDIT: Also, battles tell a story, too, just like action scenes in a movie. They can be used to communicate complex concepts as well. Really, we can use just about anything as allegory.
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