Why does mapmaking suck?

See title. Why is the map editor so awful to use? I can't be the only one to feel this way. I'm actually to the point where I'm thinking about programmatically generated maps just so that I won't have to do it tile-by-tile.

Bonus: what can be done to make the map editor easier to use? One change that I imagine would be fairly easy to implement is to allow saving map changes from within GAME so that you can use plotscripting to fill in some blanks, automatically do edge tiles, whatever and so forth, then keep the changes you've made. It would also allow some interesting new gameplay options: imagine a game that grows and changes over time.

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Mega Tact v1.1
Super Penguin Chef
Wizard Blocks

Two simple improvements: Mouse support + the ability to zoom out while drawing maps.

I think being able to select multiple tiles at once and place them all at once would be helpful, but I'm of the opinion that the map editor is fine honestly. What kind of massive maps are you making that it's soooo painstaking?

To me, the biggest pain in the slime is drawing out bigger things in the map editor. That's because you have it draw it out tile by tile, and that can be...timely. It's also a pain to try and make a tall building that has tiles within the tile, and it's hard to keep up the pattern. Sometimes it's good to have individual tiles, but sometimes there should be an option, like pressing Ctrl-F, to be able to mass edit the entire tilesheet.

Another thing is laying out things like trees, houses, ect...there should be a mass select option when selecting tiles to be able to lay more than one tile at a time. That would be good for making repeat objects.

Yeah, we definitely do want to improve the map editor. All suggestions are welcome.

Mouse support is a big one. (keyboard support won't be removed of course)

Also, as long as you are running custom Windowed and not fullscreen, we will probably allow the window to get bigger when you enter the map editor, so you can see more of the map at a time.

I'd be happy with:

-12-16 map layers for multiple weather effects or tall, complicated structures

-tile clusters so that large objects with many clones (like tall trees) can be "stamped" without having to lay out several tiles for each clone by hand

-larger tilesets so that panoramic scenes or detailed, scrolling maps can be drawn exactly as intended in a painting program and imported directly into the game as a map

-and new volunteers to help develop the engine's features so that we don't have to wait for James or TMC to do everything that they clearly have no time for (we've already got plenty of developers working on the "things only developers will notice" items, yet James and TMC seem to be doing most of the work on that, too).

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Place Obligatory Signature Here

Honestly, I'm pretty much fine with the map editor....wellllll
If I had to have an improvement, perhaps having multiples of the same door or something. I hate individually linking every door, I'd like to make a generic door that I can slap on the outside of a town to allow easy exits instead of stomping my way back to a single spot. I suppose I could "sorta" work around this with plotscripting on invisible NPCs activated on touch....but I'd prefer a universal door.

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dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x

It's fine in the sense that MS Paint is fine.

The more I think about it, the more I like the "save map data" idea. I think I might try coding it.

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Mega Tact v1.1
Super Penguin Chef
Wizard Blocks

Personally, the thing I'd like to see most would be stamping. A feature where you can select a section of the map and then stamp it elsewhere would be great for large trees, pillars, tapestries, etc... that take up more than one tile, but are always used together.

Ah, and more layers, that would be sweet. I know a lot can already be done with 8 layers, but I do tend to run out of space and tilesets when building maps for Legacy. But then again, I do tend to go a bit overboard on detail, so that might just be me.

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Being from the third world, I reserve the right to speak in the third person.

Using Editor version wip 20170527 gfx_sdl+fb music_sdl

What? No.

MS Paint is much easier to use.

I don't use the Custom map editor except for blocking and such. All of my actual tile placement is done in TileStudio, and the maps are exported using a TSD posted by The Mad Cacti in this thread. Big maps are no problem that way.

You aren't. It needs to be totally overhauled, but...

SO DOES EVERYTHING ELSE!



"save map state" already saves tilemaps in the right file format, you just need to copy the file from the temp folder. As for importing tilemaps in the map editor, I implemented that once (think it was about 90% done), but didn't check it in. Because I wanted to re-do it properly, with a more appropriate file format than .T (doesn't store tilesets!), which is going to be obsoleted as soon as I have the time to.

But if you want it, I/you can finish it and check it in.

Was also thinking of embedding the script interpreter in Custom and letting you write plug ings for the map editor... but that's a big project. And well... why not embed python or something instead?

Meowskivich approves this statement and seconds it.

And though a tad off topic, an in-creator screen-editor would be nice to have. It bugs me when I color something green and it turns yellow in the editor. *cough*

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dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x

I've never cursed the utility of the editor or anything, but if improvements are being solicited, I'll also throw in:

- tile clustering, where you can stamp down a selection of tiles all at once.
- zooming out - OR - a superior "mini-map" for it. You know how when you hit TAB, it shows you where you are as a green block relative to a large blue rectangle representing the dimensions of the full map? If that actually depicted a miniature of the map in some fashion, it would be VERY useful to me. I can't tell you how many times I got lost in my maps in Spellshard, roaming around trying to find some tiny room for which I forgot the coordinates.

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SPELLSHARD: THE BLACK CROWN OF HORGOTH now COMPLETE! Grab it today!

Hey hey hey, did someone say solicitation of features?

It would be neat to define backdrops as tileset layers, and have backdrops larger than the screen size, so it's all just one image. And some way to set tileset layer velocity.

EDIT: and multi-window support would be great. Switching between all these modes is so... dos. Should be able to open npc editing in one window, the map in another, and so on~