Post new topic    
Page 1, 2  »
Blubber Bloat
Send private message
Advice on music writing 
 PostTue Mar 06, 2012 8:21 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
Alrighty, I can play music, and I can read sheet music to a fair degree, but I am painfully inexperienced as music writer.

Just as an example, I'll link various music I've made:

It's a thing!

Crystal Memories

Calm Township

Earthy Tromp

Hooray for victory

Crystal Battles

Signs of Unlife

So, if you listened to any of those, you may believe me sub-par. And you'd be right! But that's why I'm making this post, I'm wanting to know if any of you can assist me in learning the art of original musical composition! Especially for battle themes, I struggle with them the absolute most. Sad
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x V
Slime Knight
Send private message
 
 PostTue Mar 06, 2012 11:16 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
The problem for me is that they lack form and direction. If you do some rigorous harmonic analysis, you'll pick up a lot of things.

I listened to the first few tracks, and sort of skimmed bits of the others. I was impressed with the harmonic language, much less pedestrian than a lot of other things I can think of, but your phrase structure and harmonic planning need tightened.

Any specific concerns or issues?
Blubber Bloat
Send private message
 
 PostWed Mar 07, 2012 1:44 am
Send private message Reply with quote
Probably my most main issue, personally, is usually how to end the song in a way that loops nicely, without me stressing over it and it showing in the song. And other times, it's when I can start a song....buuuut I can't figure out a tune to have as the main structure to the song.

I struggle with both, but I suppose the later of the two is my biggest issue. I can usually make the first 3-5 seconds of a song no problem, then it all derails from there.....
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x V
Slime Knight
Send private message
 
 PostWed Mar 07, 2012 6:00 am
Send private message Reply with quote
Hey Meow, I have the same problem honestly. And don't worry yourself over making the songs loop- the OHR doesn't loop them perfectly lag-free anyways. Plus, consider there are only a handful of songs I imagine in an RPG that the player will actually hear an entire length of. Anyways, I find that it helps to try and not segment songs. I usually start strong and get bored, but then I never get back to them, so I'd advise trying to take it one song at a time, not starting a bunch.
You can't fix stupidity.
Slime Knight
Send private message
 
 PostWed Mar 07, 2012 7:52 am
Send private message Reply with quote
Okay, you need to think about the form of your piece, i.e. how materials are arranged. The best way to learn this is to study historic music. Beethoven was the big innovator of form, so that's a good place to go. I'll describe a couple of forms here:

Binary: A B
In this form, you have two themes, 'A' and 'B'. It's good to have a big contrast between them, is makes the form more audible. For example, A could be a four bar phrase, with a simple accompaniment and melody. B could modulate to a related key, and be more rhythmic.

Ternary: A B A
As above, but the A theme repeats. If you are interested in making music which loops, you can end on a V7 and it'll lead back into the first theme.

Sonata form: [Exposition - Development - Recapitulation

Exposition: This section has usually two subjects, the first and second. The first is in the tonic key of the piece, and the second subject is in a closely related key. They are usually contrasting themes.

Development: This second takes the original themes, and transforms them, moving to distant harmonic areas. Usually you want a large climax in this section.

Recapitulation: Both of the themes return in their original form, but now in the tonic key of the sonata.]

I hope that gives you some ideas of ways you can structure a piece of music.
Blubber Bloat
Send private message
 
 PostWed Mar 07, 2012 1:58 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
Ummmm, I'll give this a whirl, I guess. I think I may understand what you're saying.
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x V
Slime Knight
Send private message
 
 PostThu Mar 22, 2012 6:29 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
music always wants to return to the tonic of whatever key you are in. the tonic is what the key is named by. usually examples are all given in C, because the proper notes to use for C major are all white keys. (there are times when you can play some black key notes in C major, but for the sake of your ear and learning how to write music, you should forget about those until you have a better understanding of the basics)

so in C major, you have these intervals:

C is tonic
D is a major 2nd (2 half-steps, or individual piano keys (counting black keys), or notes up from tonic)
E is a major 3rd (4 half steps)
F is a perfect 4th (5 half steps)
G is a perfect 5th (7 half steps)
A is a major 6th (9 half steps)
B is a major 7th (11 half steps)

the relationship between tonic and any interval doesn't change, so if tonic is E, then your major 2nd is F#, major 3rd is G#, etc.

Because each and every note is called a half step, the major scale can be constructed from anywhere with the following pattern, starting and ending on the tonic note:

whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half

where a whole step is two half steps, or 2 individual notes.

now, the reason why this is important to know, is those intervals do NOT stand equally. each of these notes wants to go different places, with various strengths.

for example, the major 7th wants to return to the tonic harder than anything else.

these 'wants' of each individual notes is the point all music is built on. all chords, when C is your tonic, will be built from notes from the C major scale. (again, for now)

So our most basic chord progression goes through major chords built from the tonic, the 4th, and the 5th. These chords are also the only 3 chords that are major chords in a major key. (yes, you can find many songs in a major key that use major chords that are not built from the 4th or the 5th, but YOU HAVE TO LEARN WHATS RIGHT BEFORE YOU CAN DO IT WRONG. picasso could paint very realistically, blah blah blah)

So, in the key of C major, our chord built off the tonic is C major. Our chord built off the 4th is F major, and our chord built off the 5th is... G major!

How do you build a major chord? Well, heres where intervals get a little more complicated. I'll explain as we go.

To make a major chord, you take the 1st, the major 3rd, and the perfect 5th of the root note. (ROOT is not the same thing as TONIC. tonic is the center of your key, and the root is the note most suggested by the chord. as in, the note you would naturally gravitate to singing over a chord.)

So for C major, this is fairly simple because the root and the tonic are the same note.

C-root
E-major 3rd
G-5th

BAM! tonic chord, done! in C major, this is always the chord the song wants to end on. (songs that feel unfinished at the end of them don't end on tonic)

Our chord built from the 4th is F major, and it will also use the major 3rd and the perfect 5th, but instead of the KEY's (C's) major 3rd and perfect 5th, it will stem from the note F. So here's our F chord.

F-root
A-major 3rd of F (4 half steps up from F)
C-perfect 5th of F (7 half steps up from F)

but note that while we are constructing it based on intervals around the note F, those notes (A and C) both show up in C major, as the major 6th and tonic, respectfully. this is why F major fits in the key of C major.

Our chord built from the 5th is G major:

G-root
B-major 3rd of G (major 7th to our tonic of C)
D-perfect 5th of G (major 2nd to tonic)

Now, the 5th chord has a very powerful want to go back to the tonic chord. ALL of these notes want to go back to C a decent amount, especially that B.

Basically, music is all built on intervals and what they want to do in relationship to the key you're in. I'm tired of typing but maybe I'll do some more later. 'Music theory' while it is complicated, makes more and more sense the more you learn.

Okay, actually, one more thing-- I just realized I was doing this and I hate when people do it, so I'm gonna explain why these naming conventions make sense. until you understand the basics from earlier, and understand those basics in any key, don't worry about applying any of this info. I am only mentioning it because I know of common questions people have. Like:

"Why 'major' 3rd? 'perfect' 5th?"

Interval relationships NEVER change. However, in a minor key or minor chord, there is still a 3rd. But its a minor third.

Here's every interval.

TONIC-starting note
MINOR 2ND-1 note up
MAJOR 2ND-2 notes up
MINOR 3rd-3 notes up
MAJOR 3rd-4 notes up
PERFECT 4th-5 notes up
TRITONE-6 notes up
PERFECT 5th-7 notes up
MINOR 6th-8 notes up
MAJOR 6th-9 notes up
MINOR 7th-10 notes up
MAJOR 7th-11 notes up
OCTAVE-starting note, but an octave higher

So intervals classified as major are classified that way because if they are flatted (dropped a half step/note) they will become minor. THIS IS NOT HOW YOU CONSTRUCT A MINOR KEY, but it is important to know anyway.

The perfect 4th and perfect 5th are called such because they show up in any non-exotic key. There are not major and minor versions of them. They just are.

The tritone is a very unique interval. It is the least consonant, meaning it sounds the worst, or most dissonant of the bunch. You will never see it referred to as the tritone in a musical context, usually it will be called a DIMINISHED FIFTH. but there are times, though rare, where it functions as an AUGMENTED 4th.

Diminished-flatted by a half step
Augmented-sharpened by a half step

OK nope I'm done. More later maybe. Check out www.musictheory.net and google any questions. some people make minor mistakes, but in my experience the easiest way to learn theory is to LEARN IT FROM EVERYWHERE. because often something that doesn't make sense to you will make sense when its explained in a slightly different way.
Liquid Metal Slime
Send private message
 
 PostThu Mar 22, 2012 10:06 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
Whoa, Music Theory 1OHR. I'm coming back later tonight to study.
Slime Knight
Send private message
 
 PostThu Mar 22, 2012 11:24 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
shakeyair wrote:

The tritone is a very unique interval. It is the least consonant, meaning it sounds the worst, or most dissonant of the bunch. You will never see it referred to as the tritone in a musical context, usually it will be called a DIMINISHED FIFTH. but there are times, though rare, where it functions as an AUGMENTED 4th.


It's worth noting that while it is considered a dissonant interval, in a harmonic context it is the characterising element of a V7-I perfect cadence - pretty much the backbone of tonal music.

I think is immensely unhelpful to describe dissonances as sounding 'bad', especially when you consider how dull all music would be if there weren't any.

That aside, excellent job on the write-up!
Blubber Bloat
Send private message
 
 PostThu Mar 22, 2012 11:44 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
And I sit on the side-lines here, feeling stupid. Zombie
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x V
Slime Knight
Send private message
 
 PostThu Mar 22, 2012 11:55 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
Eh!? Not at all. I'm unclear as to how much music theory you actually know. Can you tell us? It'll make it easier for us to work out how to best give you advice.
Slime Knight
Send private message
 
 PostFri Mar 23, 2012 12:05 am
Send private message Reply with quote
SwampTroll wrote:
I think is immensely unhelpful to describe dissonances as sounding 'bad', especially when you consider how dull all music would be if there weren't any.


This is true. I was just not sure if consonance or dissonance would be familiar terms to everybody. And I'm not sure of a more common word which better explains it?

Perhaps 'less agreeable' would be a better way to phrase it?

Meowskivich wrote:
And I sit on the side-lines here, feeling stupid.


It doesn't help me help you if you can't explain where I lost you. Did you visit www.musictheory.net? It is a great resource with audio and image examples of everything I said (and so much more! but don't get in over your head, keep to what you can understand and work on applying it and grow slowly-- soon enough the confusing things will all make sense in your ears and in your head!)

Do you have access to a keyboard? A toy $15 (or less?) one or an online one which uses your computer keyboard, such as this will be perfectly fine. Keyboard is just helpful because of the way its laid out, showing C major so clearly.
Slime Knight
Send private message
 
 PostFri Mar 23, 2012 12:42 am
Send private message Reply with quote
This is an interesting point. I think we need to completely divorce consonance and dissonance from qualitative descriptions. I think they just 'are'. I think the best way to gain familiarity with consonances and dissonances is just to experience them, if possible.
Slime Knight
Send private message
 
 PostFri Mar 23, 2012 1:45 am
Send private message Reply with quote
Well, I'm sitting here waiting to get picked up and I'm away from all my instruments, but thinking about music. So I may as well write some more. (note to self: bring that ukulele everywhere, just in case!)

Most sources (at least online--I am self taught) go right into talking about the minor scales (there are 3). I'm not going to. Well, I'll probably talk about natural minor a bit.

But I think a simpler way to do it is going into chord progressions a bit more first, and talking a bit more about where certain chords want to go next. Focusing mostly still on those major key intervals, before we throw in a bunch of new minor ones! yuck! Smile

Music is all about where a note wants to go next, except the tonic-- its perfectly fine just sitting there, though it can also go other places no problem.

So in the key of C major, lets look a little closer at why G major wants to return to C major so badly.

Again, G major contains the notes: G B D
And C major is: C E G

and (for reference) the C major scale: C D E F G A B C

So. Why does GBD-->CEG?

G wants pretty bad to go to C, because G is the 5th of C.
B wants really, really, really badly to go to C, because B is the major 7th of C.
B also pretty bad to go to E, because B is the 5th of E. (again, B is the major 7th of C, but ALSO the 5th of E)
D wants pretty bad to go to G, because D is the 5th of G. (D is the major 2nd of C, but ALSO the 5th of G)
D also kind of wants to go to C, because D is the major 2nd of C.

Note that most of these are general- no matter the key, G would like to go to C. D usually kind of likes going to C, unless C is not in the key you are playing in. Then D no longer wants to do that, at all. However, D would like to go to G whether or not G is in the key you are in, because 5ths are cool with that. But don't worry about that too much yet.

B, the major 7th, is interesting. Say, for example, you're in G major: G A B C D E F#

B still does want to go to C, yeah. But in C major, B is obsessed with getting to C. B wants to go to C more than anything. B would probably sell its soul to get to C. And you can hear how bad it wants it. And you can hear how good it feels when it gets there, if you know what to listen for.

Intervals all have their own colors and their own wants, and its hard to correctly quantify all of them. Especially because every interval is, at the same time, wanting to work FOR the key, but also FOR their own individual wants. So its a little confusing, but you need to think about them as pertaining to the key, but also as to how they relate to other notes in the key. It becomes natural after a while, and its REALLY REALLY helpful to work on with a GUITAR, as opposed to a piano. If anyone plays/has a guitar and wants a more thorough explanation of that, let me know.

Time for me to go, but I'll edit this post later and make it more clear.
Blubber Bloat
Send private message
 
 PostFri Mar 23, 2012 1:49 am
Send private message Reply with quote
The extent of my musical knowledge is how to play a piano (a little novicely? making up a word, but you know what I mean. I've learned it, but haven't got deeply involved with expanding my skills), and how to read sheet music...sorta, I'm a little out o' practice with that.

And there you have it. I suppose I know how to sing too, as I've taken some classes (a class, really) on improving singing techniques. Only truly did it for the music cred.

But, yar, I'm pretty much bottom barrel here.

And as for reading the thing, I haven't yet, I'm not really in the mood today, but I'll try to get around to it. I just popped on for a little bit, and what with your musical terms and fancy whoozits, I felt all "...wut" about it.
dOn'T MiNd mE! i'M jUsT CoNtAgIoUs!!!
Play Orbs CCG: http://orbsccg.com/r/4r6x V
Display posts from previous:
Page 1, 2  »