Zelda-like (sort of)

This is still very much in the planning stages. But it would basically be like Zelda, but without monsters. By which I mean, you get a bunch of cool items to solve cool puzzles to get more cool items.

I am posting not so much to announce it, but more because I want some help brain-storming on items. This is much more difficult than I would have ever thought, because the items should be fairly basic, but extremely versatile, but also freaking cool.

I like to think talking about the items won't ruin the game too much, since you guys still don't get to see all their novel and super clever uses! (hahaha)

So anyway, here are my ideas so far:



I think there will, like zelda, be some distinction between overworld and 'dungeon' segments, but they won't really be dungeons per se. Alternatively, the whole world will be laid out like a huge dungeon, with every puzzle solved opening a new way (and a shortcut if necessary so the puzzle doesn't need to be solved again) Either way, 'dungeons' will definitely be populated by people. Probably. Really, I'm trying to start with items that lend themselves well to a myriad of interesting puzzles and work backward.

This idea originated as a fan-game, but i think it will be more of an original game which is also sort of a gushing love letter to zelda. hahaha

Thoughts?

I do like the idea, however without enemies to fight and only puzzles... building a story around this is going to be the most difficult task.

It might be best to add some enemies, which are fought RPG-style, such as adding mini-bosses and bosses. This way there is at least is something to revolve a story around. I guess not all stories have bad guys, maybe this will be some sort of romance story where in order to show your love for the Princess, you need to go through these puzzles of "Wisdom". Some princesses prefer Brain over Brawn, right?

I was going to attempt a Zelda-style game, or rather perhaps Mystic Quest like game, or maybe a Wild Arms like game... Hmm, Wild Arms is the better example, as the items in that game are sometimes really neat when solving puzzles. The game was going to feature the items being usable inside battle and having similar effects to that of the items in a real zelda game. Outside of battle, the items would be used for puzzles. If you play Zelda and only use your items for puzzles and not for battles, then your hardly a Zelda gamer... Items not only play a huge part in puzzles, but also for strategy in battles, and not only boss battles. This could very well be why I enjoy Zelda so much over the next action-adventure game... Zelda actually has elements of strategy and using your brain during many battles throughout the game, you can't defeat everything with a sword, and that's how every game should be.

I still yet to understand how movies and books are able to pull off stories without enemies to murder. It boggles my mind.

Or a good portion of.. ya' know, adventure/puzzle games.

i am considering having 'bosses' of sorts. basically a puzzle with a failure condition that looks like a bad guy. haha.

would suddenly getting health throw people off? maybe ill adapt a system where your health shows when you get hurt, and then make some things that can hurt you. (gives you some incentive to not do dumb things to brute force your way through a puzzle, i suppose)

bosses will probably mostly be behind contraptions, so you don't deal with them personally. because that behavior will be easier to program ha ha ha.

initially, when i concieved it as a zelda fangame, i was still not going to have battles, and the very last item you got would finally be a sword just in time to actually kill someone. hahahaha.

also, the story will be a major component. many of my item ideas have to do directly with interacting with people. i suppose the game i want to create is more like majora's mask minus time travel shenanigans (probably) and battles.

of course i don't know what that story is yet, but it wouldn't exactly be a love letter to zelda if the world wasn't at stake.

This sounds brilliant actually. I loved Majora's Mask for it's intricate, interwoven relationships between the NPCs and the environment. I am all for combat being totally removed. Not everything needs direct conflict, especially of the violent nature.

yeah im kind of thinking along the lines of some sealed evil you have to stop, with a big bad who is more the charismatic scheming type who doesn't do any of his fighting himself.

but that will all be figured out in due time. id really like some help deciding on a reasonable number of interesting items, as opposed to discussing a storyline i'm going to build large parts of out of backstories and uses for said items, haha.

the only other item idea i have had so far is another straight zelda rip off:

the deku sticks! i think theres a lot of cool ideas centered around getting to a place before the stick burns down, as opposed to more arbitrary silly time limits. these puzzles would involve pushing stuff, knocking stuff over, opening doors etc to make it possible to light a torch somewhere else in time. not a very exciting item in and of itself, but i think it lends itself well to enough situations. maybe ill have a little bit of fun and make it a 'fire jar' or something instead. (that lends itself well to a GUI element so that the time limit is shown) and multiple colors of fire which dissipate at different speeds... hm.

I liked the deku sticks a lot in OOT. I like that they were useful, but fragile and time sensitive.

Maybe a cloud wand that would make temporary bridges for small gaps, but only one at a time. Not as interesting without combat though, probably.

You know those sliding box puzzles, where the box would slide until it hit an obstacle? Pokemon had them in a cave with ice...You could maybe do something interesting with an Ice Rod that would shoot a whole line of ice on the ground so you could push boxes in this fashion. It would mix the puzzle up a bit since you'd have to create your own ice logistically.

In A Link to the Past, there was that one wand that could create a solid block, but only one at a time. That could create some interesting puzzles, and ways to avoid traps etc.

The dreamcatcher...is actually a great idea. I'd like to use that for one of my own games!

How about an item to murder with? jk, I know you don't want battles, so I'll respect that. I can see a story working without a battle, at least the way you are describing it.

How about a can of soda water, the player could use it to levitate for a short time over some obstacles(a vehicle in OHR can make this work, along with a timer).

A potion from Mario Bros. 2, used to create a door to pass through certain objects.

Acid(either the drug or actual chemical), it will make some walls melt.

A slimesalad, it can be used to either slip or trick baddies(a way to progress with enemies, but not fight them).

A cardboard box, snake used one to get passed badies without battling them.

Banana Peel, can be used to slide some objects and to slip some badies(again to prevent them from capturing the player).

Hmm, I think I'm sort of turning this into a stealth game... But if you did add badies(NPCs that respond to zones) to the game, the player would never battle them, but if the player is seen by them, well the player needs to re-do the puzzle. Badies could add an interactive element to a puzzle(say later on in the game to increase difficulty). It would be a great use of zones. If player enters zone without being in cardboard box and enemy is facing player, well, he saw ya! If you make it turn-based, it may turn out very interesting. You can easily make a turn-based puzzle game, when the player moves, an enemy also moves, adding some strategy to the puzzles.

A game about interacting with NPCs and solving puzzles absolutely MUST have bad guys.

yes, we all remember what a large part combat played in the lucasarts adventure games.

unless newbies trying to say that there still needs to be antagonists, which there definitely will be. but any and all combat will be indirect and based on item mechanics and affecting the environment.

zelda style combat is too much work and would suck unless i made at least some rudimentary AI for enemies. RPG combat will interrupt the flow of the game im trying to make. because i will not put random battles in a puzzle game, that would be infuriating. and all of the sudden switching to an RPG battle just for bosses/minibosses/whatever? geez you wouldn't get enough familiarity with your characters moves and whatnot. adding that to how difficult it is to make reasonable 'puzzle bosses' in the OHR (hell in an RPG format in general-- there are very few puzzle bosses which actually require more than a rudimentary amount of thinking)

and my thoughts on stealth: remember how the section where you have to avoid the guards is the worst section of every zelda game ever? even in minish cap where it literally lasts 5 seconds.

thats not saying there won't be some parts where stealth is necessary (just had a few ideas i kind of like, actually) but i don't think a major focus on stealth will lend itself to being very fun.

there may be some sections with enemies that will harm you, but you will not fight them. not directly, anyway. and they will behave like a puzzle mechanic. really that depends on the story i wind up telling.

TheCube: I like both of those ideas. perhaps an 'ice wand' of sorts could also replace the 'pegasus boots' as a way to move quickly when necessary. I am going to try to avoid box puzzles in general, because i don't find them that stimulating. there will likely be a few, but my intention would be to combine them with other mechanics in novel ways. an ice wand provides a great way of mixing it up, plus i can think of several other uses (freezing water) Awesome. I also wanted to do something that let you cross 1 tile wide gaps. I was stuck on it being a ladder or a plank though, which i wasn't too happy with. A cloud, however, I like. Especially because i can do things like hallways with wind, that blow the character on the cloud somewhere. Awesome. Thanks man.

I like that a lot! And the cloud could pass through things that the player couldn't like grates, so that they could get the cloud into odd places...or get knocked off while they're riding it.

Aside on the stealth thing: The first level of A Link to the Past is a sort of stealth thing, but when you get seen they just attack and you have to fight them off. I liked this quite a bit, because I hate the instant-fail thing so common among stealth sections in games. Not really relevant, but whatevs

Is it really? I don't think I have ever even kind of tried to play that part with any stealth. Next time I start it up I'll have to keep that in mind.

MasterK: hah. Well, entering dreams is hardly an original idea. I think you ought to try and come up with your own name, but if you like mine so much I suppose I don't really care. But if anyone says I copied off you, I'm directing them to this thread!

Entering Dreams was done using the Dream Rod on one of my fave SNES titles, Soul Blazer. It was used to unlock areas in the real world, so for the most part a separate dream world was never created. This might work, if you did not want to invest time into making dream worlds and it does add an interesting puzzle element not seen in many games.