Post new topic    
Page 1, 2  »
Super Slime
Send private message
Let's Design #1: Cyan 
 PostTue Mar 22, 2011 4:25 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
Welcome to what I hope is the first in a series of game design exercises. The premise is simple: I give a scenario, then we brainstorm possible solutions. In the process, hopefully we'll start thinking of new ways to approach our game design problems.

#1: Cyan

You've probably played Final Fantasy 6. If you haven't, then you probably should, but fear not: I'll explain what's going on here in a bit.

Cyan is a pretty cool guy. He's got the awesome mustache and the katanas and all. But while he's a great character, he's really not that effective as a party member. His attack and magic are lackluster, and his signature move SwdTech has some clunky mechanics: in order to execute the higher-level SwdTechs, you have to select the command then wait... and wait... and wait for the gauge to fill. Meanwhile, you can't input commands for other party members; you have to wait for the SwdTech gauge to get to where you want it.

Today's challenge, then: Make Cyan good. Not overpowered, but good. Bonus points for doing it in a way that is interesting.

Optional Bonus Challenge: Make Cyan good without changing the SwdTech gauge mechanic.


-------------------------

For reference, here's a list of Cyan's SwdTechs. You can probably ignore the level he learns them, since an event later in the game gives him all of them at once.

Dispatch:
Obtained at Level 1
Effects: Physical damage to one foe

Retort:
Obtained at level 6
Effects: Puts Cyan into retort mode. When hit with a
physical attack, he counters with a non-elemental magic attack.

Slash:
Obtained at level 12
Effects: Deals damage equal to 50% of enemies HP, adds Seizure. (Enemies are immune to this about as often as you'd guess.)

Quadra Slam:
Obtained at level 15
Effects: Attacks random enemies with 4 separate attacks.

Empowerer:
Obtained at level 24
Effects: Magic damage and MP damage to one foe, restoring equal HP and MP to Cyan.

Stunner:
Obtained at level 34
Effects: Non-elemental magic damage to all enemies, randomly inflicts
Stop.

Quadra Slice:
Obtained at level 44
Effects: Attacks random enemies with 4 separate attacks. Difference
between this and Quadra Slam is that this Ignores Defense.

Cleaver:
Obtained at level 70
Effects: Instant Death to all enemies.

Code:
SwdTech            Power     Physical  Ign. Def. Unblock   Hit Rate
Dispatch           120       Yes       Yes       Yes       n/a
Retort             56        No        Yes       Yes       n/a
Slash              8         Yes       No        Yes       n/a
Quadra Slam        72        Yes       No        Yes       n/a
Empowerer          49        No        Yes       Yes       n/a
Stunner            97        No        No        Yes       140*
Quadra Slice       70        Yes       Yes       Yes       n/a
Cleave             0         No        Yes       No        182

* The main damage portion of Stunner is unblockable, but the special
effect will only try to inflict the ailment 116/256 of the time
(116 = 256 - 140). 

(Note that Retort is actually much better than it looks on paper, since it's magical and not physical.)
Mega Tact v1.1
Super Penguin Chef
Wizard Blocks
Metal Slime
Send private message
 
 PostTue Mar 22, 2011 4:31 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
Give other characters longer attack animations. I think this was how the designers originally wanted Cyan to be used, for the player to make Cyan wait while other characters performed their attacks.
Liquid Metal Slime
Send private message
 
 PostTue Mar 22, 2011 4:38 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
Download EvilType, instantly Cyan is good.
My website, the home of Motrya:
http://www.jshgaming.com
Super Slime
Send private message
 
 PostTue Mar 22, 2011 5:04 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
JSH357 wrote:
Download EvilType, instantly Cyan is good.
That's cheating!

But what did EvilType do to Cyan exactly?
Mega Tact v1.1
Super Penguin Chef
Wizard Blocks
Liquid Metal Slime
Send private message
 
 PostTue Mar 22, 2011 5:11 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
Mogri wrote:
JSH357 wrote:
Download EvilType, instantly Cyan is good.
That's cheating!

But what did EvilType do to Cyan exactly?


Made his attacks and equipment worthwhile. Honestly, just buffing the Swdtechs makes a huge difference.
My website, the home of Motrya:
http://www.jshgaming.com
Liquid Metal Slime
Send private message
 
 PostTue Mar 22, 2011 5:19 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
Have his attacks build up SwdTech gauge, essentially powering up his super moves with his lesser ones.

You'd still be waiting to use his cooler moves, but at least you'd be doing something in the meanwhile.
♪♪♪ Du du duuuu ♪♪♪
Reigning Smash Champion
Send private message
 
 PostTue Mar 22, 2011 5:21 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
Quote:
Honestly, just buffing the Swdtechs makes a huge difference.
.
<TheGiz> oh hai doggy, oh no that's the straw that broke tjhe came baclsb
Super Slime
Send private message
 
 PostTue Mar 22, 2011 5:27 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
OK, in that case, what would you do to his SwdTechs to make the later ones worth using?
Mega Tact v1.1
Super Penguin Chef
Wizard Blocks
Metal Slime
Send private message
 
 PostTue Mar 22, 2011 5:30 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
give cyan the offering and gauntlet relics, the scimitar, and the haste spell too, if you want.

then, watch him slice and dice enemies the eff up. any enemies that aren't instantly killed by the scimitar's effect take huge damage from the scimitar's high attack power, doubled by using it with two hands via the gauntlet. swdtechs? i don't even use them anymore (except for the occasional retort, depending on the situation). he still sucks with magic this way, though, but it doesn't matter if you give him spells like haste, stop, break, and death. also, be wary of bosses that can counter. they don't like being slashed at 4 times in a row. they get pissed. Devil

this makes him my strongest character, next to shadow, sabin, and terra.
Hey, I just met you, and this is crazy... So here's some lunchmeat... Sandwich, maybe?
Metal Slime
Send private message
 
 PostTue Mar 22, 2011 5:35 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
I never really saw how Cyan was "bad," honestly. Sure, he's not as good as Sabin or Edgar, and he's not as good with magic as any of the magic-based characters... but he never seemed to be disproportionately weak compared to the others, either.

Besides, it's not like FF6 is such a hard game that you need super-perfect characters, after all. I never understood why people were so obsessed with maxing out their characters in Final Fantasy games, teaching everyone every spell, going way overboard with esper stat bonuses, etc... when you don't near anywhere near that much stuff to beat the game.

Anyway, I seem to remember that when I was making a FF6 ROM hack a while back, I lowered most characters' HP while leaving Cyan's alone. I also cut back on the power of some of the strongest weapons, so that most characters had an "ultimate weapon" that was unique to them (or possibly them and one other character), and everyone's best weapons were around the same level (rather than Ragnarok/Illumina being just all-around better than everything.)
I think I also attempted to make Quadra Slice hit eight times rather than just four, though I'm not sure if that actually worked since I never got far enough on the hack to actually test it (and now that I think about it, 8 hits with the defense-ignoring thing might have ended up being really overpowered, even with the long wait you have to go through for it.)
FYS:AHS -- Swapping out some step-on NPCs for zones + each step script
Puckamon -- Not until the reserve party is expanded.[/size]
Super Slime
Send private message
 
 PostTue Mar 22, 2011 5:35 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
@mjohnson: Cyan is not the only one who can use that setup, nor is he the best at it. Besides, Setzer is still the best Offering user.
Mega Tact v1.1
Super Penguin Chef
Wizard Blocks
Reigning Smash Champion
Send private message
 
 PostTue Mar 22, 2011 5:38 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
Mogri wrote:
OK, in that case, what would you do to his SwdTechs to make the later ones worth using?
There are multiple solutions and I'll just get told about a different idea if I mentioned a specific one
<TheGiz> oh hai doggy, oh no that's the straw that broke tjhe came baclsb
Metal Slime
Send private message
 
 PostTue Mar 22, 2011 5:40 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
Mogri wrote:
@mjohnson: Cyan is not the only one who can use that setup, nor is he the best at it. Besides, Setzer is still the best Offering user.


but we're not talking about other characters. we're talking about cyan. i'd much prefer to give them to another character myself.
Hey, I just met you, and this is crazy... So here's some lunchmeat... Sandwich, maybe?
Super Slime
Send private message
 
 PostTue Mar 22, 2011 5:43 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
You can't discuss design in a vacuum. The other characters exist, and Cyan is weak in comparison to them. If the other characters were at Cyan's level, the game would be more challenging overall. V

@Newbie: you may be missing the point of this exercise
Mega Tact v1.1
Super Penguin Chef
Wizard Blocks
Metal Slime
Send private message
 
 PostTue Mar 22, 2011 6:08 pm
Send private message Reply with quote
well, why dintcha say so then? you said "make cyan good". not "make cyan good in a party". Hurr

in that case, i would completely change his swdtech mechanics. who wants to sit there and get pummeled while waiting to do an attack that does ultimately less damage than if you let your other party members attack instead of waiting for your slow arse?

i thought about button combos, but sabin does that.
i thought about slots like tifa in FF7, but that'd be overpowered. and setzer does that.
i thought about his command changing him to a stance where he can only use his swdtechs, but have little or no defense, but that might be hard.
i had another thought, that could work. sort of like a pendulum minigame.
here's what it might look like for one of the first attacks, like dispatch.

|_|___|_____|___|_|
red misses. black is normal damage. green is critical, or x2 dmg.
as the swdtechs get better, the pendulum gets harder.

|____|__|_|__|____|

this would make his attacks a LOT faster, and he wouldn't impede on the other characters.
Hey, I just met you, and this is crazy... So here's some lunchmeat... Sandwich, maybe?
Display posts from previous:
Page 1, 2  »