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According to current ownership, the most popular metamagic is Maximize. In close second is Ensure. Third is a three-way tie between Delay, Extend, and Enchant. I'm the only one who loves Disguise, and the rest have no owner.
Which metamagic is your favorite and which do you wish weren't so weak?
Mega Tact v1.1
Super Penguin Chef
Wizard Blocks
Metamagic statistics
Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:59 pm 
Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:17 pm
Absorb:
For a 100 damage attack, you'd heal back 16 HP and deal 80 damage to your opponent.
The attack is also more expensive and you need brains to use it properly.
Could be neat with a Drain Claw and Goo-Gulp, I guess?
Reduce:
There seem to be plenty of low-cost alternatives to attacks as it is.
I don't really see the use of having an attack that does half everything.
Charge:
Would be more interesting if I knew how much it actually enhanced an attack.
Ensure is definitely my favorite, for obvious reasons.
The MP increase also isn't too bad. (Guaranteed Paralysis for 2 extra MP? Yes please!)
Disguise is an interesting one, but it only really shines in PvP (I would think?). Most of us can also make pretty good guesses about what's going on as well (8 turns of a buff? Hmm, what is Meditation?).
Enchant looks great, but I'd like to see what its range of effects is before jumping into a battle with it.
For a 100 damage attack, you'd heal back 16 HP and deal 80 damage to your opponent.
The attack is also more expensive and you need brains to use it properly.
Could be neat with a Drain Claw and Goo-Gulp, I guess?
Reduce:
There seem to be plenty of low-cost alternatives to attacks as it is.
I don't really see the use of having an attack that does half everything.
Charge:
Would be more interesting if I knew how much it actually enhanced an attack.
Ensure is definitely my favorite, for obvious reasons.
The MP increase also isn't too bad. (Guaranteed Paralysis for 2 extra MP? Yes please!)
Disguise is an interesting one, but it only really shines in PvP (I would think?). Most of us can also make pretty good guesses about what's going on as well (8 turns of a buff? Hmm, what is Meditation?).
Enchant looks great, but I'd like to see what its range of effects is before jumping into a battle with it.
Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:34 pm
Absorb is the one I was definitely thinking of buffing. (Actually, Drain Claws might get the same treatment.)
Reduce -- maybe if I lowered the MP cost to 40% instead of 50%? Then you're gaining MP efficiency. It would combo well with Final Sludgment and (for those who don't have enough Str) Sludgehammer Special.
Charge is 50% power, +1 effect duration, +10% effect chance, increased crits ("crit chance" -15%; the exact percent change depends on Agi), no fumbles. It's a good assortment of increases, but I'm not sure it's worth an extra turn. Maybe at +100% power? Then you could Charged Coup de Grace to kill opponents at 30 Agi (90 on a critical).
Enchant has ten different possibilities currently. I think it's the most useful ability for newbies by far due to the possibility of poison effects completely outdamaging the enchanted attack. James seems to like it, too.
Mega Tact v1.1
Super Penguin Chef
Wizard Blocks
Reduce -- maybe if I lowered the MP cost to 40% instead of 50%? Then you're gaining MP efficiency. It would combo well with Final Sludgment and (for those who don't have enough Str) Sludgehammer Special.
Charge is 50% power, +1 effect duration, +10% effect chance, increased crits ("crit chance" -15%; the exact percent change depends on Agi), no fumbles. It's a good assortment of increases, but I'm not sure it's worth an extra turn. Maybe at +100% power? Then you could Charged Coup de Grace to kill opponents at 30 Agi (90 on a critical).
Enchant has ten different possibilities currently. I think it's the most useful ability for newbies by far due to the possibility of poison effects completely outdamaging the enchanted attack. James seems to like it, too.
Mega Tact v1.1
Super Penguin Chef
Wizard Blocks
Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:40 pm
That's funny. I was using spread, but I switched over to ensure like 2 days ago.
Hurray for conformity!
Ok, so basically I'd rank them like this:
1.MAXIMIZE
2.ensure
3.enchant
4.extend
5.charge
6.delay
7.disguise
8.absorb
9.spread
10.reduce
Here's why:
Maximize is always good. There's never a time when it's bad. And it can be used with lots of attacks.
Ensure is useful with some attacks every time you use those attacks. It's not really situational. And the fact that it adds very low cost to the move is good. In fact this makes some old unused attacks more viable. ( I kind of want to show you something I thought up with this, in arena)
Enchant is pretty good. (I had it for a short bit. I got rid of it because there's only like 5-6 attacks it can be used with. And even though enchanted backstabs and backpokes is pretty good, with the nerfing of the assassin blade I just don't see those moves being used as much. ) Anyways, it's not really great but it's also pretty solid. If anything I'd say you should be able to add it to more attacks. unless there's some kind of coding problem I don't see why spread moves or moves that already have effects could use this.
Extend: this is a lot like ensure. it has a couple attacks that make it really good. Of course it has less useful ones then ensure. Unless it's used with stoneform or contract it's really not that useful to have an extra turn of an effect. I suggest increasing duration by 50% instead of just 1 round, and just adding a set amount to the MP cost. That way this could be useful more attacks.
Charge & Delay: These are pretty good. but honestly I don't see the point. Basically, these are good sometimes. They're too situational to be something you should pick over a generally good option like maximize. The only time I can see using them is if the enemy has stoneform on. Cause otherwise, they'll use it and cancel 2 twos for the price of 1. And that's all assuming they even have the move. these can also be used less effectively against shield spells. But since those can just be recast I don't see the point.
Disguise is more neat then useful. sure you can surprise them with an assassinate, or trick them with a stoneform. but both of those are still pretty easy to identify. Other then that you're just adding the spooky sub-type to yourself. sure we don't know what you're doing but you'll still die just the same. I suggest telling the other players less. like no turn count on the status. that'll really power-up the stoneform trick.
Absorb:I've never been too keen on your absorbing moves. They never heal you enough for it to be worth it, let alone even noticeable.
Spread just makes things too weak. And the 50% effect chance for status moves just plain sucks. I'd rather not make my moves worse honestly. This goes for reduce too.
Reduce: Maybe good if I'm low on MP and the enemy only has a couple HP left.
Maximize is always good. There's never a time when it's bad. And it can be used with lots of attacks.
Hurray for conformity!
Ok, so basically I'd rank them like this:
1.MAXIMIZE
2.ensure
3.enchant
4.extend
5.charge
6.delay
7.disguise
8.absorb
9.spread
10.reduce
Here's why:
Maximize is always good. There's never a time when it's bad. And it can be used with lots of attacks.
Ensure is useful with some attacks every time you use those attacks. It's not really situational. And the fact that it adds very low cost to the move is good. In fact this makes some old unused attacks more viable. ( I kind of want to show you something I thought up with this, in arena)
Enchant is pretty good. (I had it for a short bit. I got rid of it because there's only like 5-6 attacks it can be used with. And even though enchanted backstabs and backpokes is pretty good, with the nerfing of the assassin blade I just don't see those moves being used as much. ) Anyways, it's not really great but it's also pretty solid. If anything I'd say you should be able to add it to more attacks. unless there's some kind of coding problem I don't see why spread moves or moves that already have effects could use this.
Extend: this is a lot like ensure. it has a couple attacks that make it really good. Of course it has less useful ones then ensure. Unless it's used with stoneform or contract it's really not that useful to have an extra turn of an effect. I suggest increasing duration by 50% instead of just 1 round, and just adding a set amount to the MP cost. That way this could be useful more attacks.
Charge & Delay: These are pretty good. but honestly I don't see the point. Basically, these are good sometimes. They're too situational to be something you should pick over a generally good option like maximize. The only time I can see using them is if the enemy has stoneform on. Cause otherwise, they'll use it and cancel 2 twos for the price of 1. And that's all assuming they even have the move. these can also be used less effectively against shield spells. But since those can just be recast I don't see the point.
Disguise is more neat then useful. sure you can surprise them with an assassinate, or trick them with a stoneform. but both of those are still pretty easy to identify. Other then that you're just adding the spooky sub-type to yourself. sure we don't know what you're doing but you'll still die just the same. I suggest telling the other players less. like no turn count on the status. that'll really power-up the stoneform trick.
Absorb:I've never been too keen on your absorbing moves. They never heal you enough for it to be worth it, let alone even noticeable.
Spread just makes things too weak. And the 50% effect chance for status moves just plain sucks. I'd rather not make my moves worse honestly. This goes for reduce too.
Reduce: Maybe good if I'm low on MP and the enemy only has a couple HP left.
Maximize is always good. There's never a time when it's bad. And it can be used with lots of attacks.
Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:57 pm
Delay is my favorite. Even before I discovered double-assassinate, I was having fun with it. I am not convinced that it is a big advantage in any other way, but it sure is really fun. I think it could be a good psychological weapon in multi-team battles, but I haven't fought enough with it to know for sure. it is also useful for fighting omega, because I can load up on damage for my final hit to reduce the chances that he will panic and use contract because i have worn down his hp gradually.
Charge sucks. I tried it for a little while, and I can't imagine why I would want to use it. Compared to delaying and using the same attack twice. Maybe I just say that because I have good int and can afford paying for the attack twice
I also tried Enchant for a while. I enjoyed it, and will probably try it again sometime. The effects are small, and luck is a big factor, but the seem to help anyway. The disappointing thing about Enchant is that there are so few attacks you can pair it with.
I don't understand what the big deal about maximize is. I saw double-vengeance-sword Omega using it to impressive effect, but when I look at the cots, and when I observe the damage that is dealt to me by players and slimebots using it, I am not inclined to bother with it (unless maybe I was love brick spamming)
I have no use for reduce, but it seems great for low-level players. I recently helped Momoka learn Sludehammer special, and although his stats are too low to use it outright, he should be able to use reduced sludgehammer special with no problems.
Spread sounds cool. I will be trying it eventually.
I just rented Extend, but I haven't tried it yet. Extending supershock or shrink ray holds little appeal to me, but things like extended contract, extended reanimation, or extended stoneform sound really cool (but expensive)
I'm not sure about ensure. It doesn't seem all that interesting to me at the moment.
The Jury is out on Disguise. I am watching with curiosity how you use it, Mogri. Am I correct assume that it fools bot AI's too?
Maybe absorb is okay by the numbers, but anything that decreases my damage output is a turn-off. I'm still clinging to my assassin's dagger, but assassin's dagger penalty plus absorb penalty? No thank you!
If you are looking to create any new metamagics, I would like to suggest a metamagic that would let you use self-targetting attacks on your teammates. The costs might have to be high to avoid game-breaking, but being able to use the "Purge" spells on allies, or to stoneform or contract an ally would be really cool. Recharge would have to be exempted. Allowing that would be bogus.
Charge sucks. I tried it for a little while, and I can't imagine why I would want to use it. Compared to delaying and using the same attack twice. Maybe I just say that because I have good int and can afford paying for the attack twice
I also tried Enchant for a while. I enjoyed it, and will probably try it again sometime. The effects are small, and luck is a big factor, but the seem to help anyway. The disappointing thing about Enchant is that there are so few attacks you can pair it with.
I don't understand what the big deal about maximize is. I saw double-vengeance-sword Omega using it to impressive effect, but when I look at the cots, and when I observe the damage that is dealt to me by players and slimebots using it, I am not inclined to bother with it (unless maybe I was love brick spamming)
I have no use for reduce, but it seems great for low-level players. I recently helped Momoka learn Sludehammer special, and although his stats are too low to use it outright, he should be able to use reduced sludgehammer special with no problems.
Spread sounds cool. I will be trying it eventually.
I just rented Extend, but I haven't tried it yet. Extending supershock or shrink ray holds little appeal to me, but things like extended contract, extended reanimation, or extended stoneform sound really cool (but expensive)
I'm not sure about ensure. It doesn't seem all that interesting to me at the moment.
The Jury is out on Disguise. I am watching with curiosity how you use it, Mogri. Am I correct assume that it fools bot AI's too?
Maybe absorb is okay by the numbers, but anything that decreases my damage output is a turn-off. I'm still clinging to my assassin's dagger, but assassin's dagger penalty plus absorb penalty? No thank you!
If you are looking to create any new metamagics, I would like to suggest a metamagic that would let you use self-targetting attacks on your teammates. The costs might have to be high to avoid game-breaking, but being able to use the "Purge" spells on allies, or to stoneform or contract an ally would be really cool. Recharge would have to be exempted. Allowing that would be bogus.
Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:09 pm
Quote:
Recharge would have to be exempted. Allowing that would be bogus.
You mean the attack energize?
Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:10 pm
James Paige wrote:
Am I correct assume that it fools bot AI's too?
No. OMEGA is the only bot that cares about specific effects. Contract comes to mind, but it doesn't make sense to make Contract fool OMEGA, since it's not fooling anyone else.
Other bots do pay attention to effects, but only to what effect the effects have on their stats. They mostly don't care about effects on you, except insofar as those effects alter the damage they'd deal to you (Nigh-Invulnerability, for instance). I could make it fool them, but the overhead for doing so would be considerable because they don't have any "memory" currently and it would make them much dumber if they kept plugging away at you because they couldn't recognize that you were invincible.
It is, regardless, a lot of fun to use.
Mega Tact v1.1
Super Penguin Chef
Wizard Blocks
Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:12 pm
Spoonweaver wrote:
You mean the attack energize?
Quote:
Recharge would have to be exempted. Allowing that would be bogus.
You mean the attack energize?
I mean that if there was a metamagic that allowed self-targetted attacks on allies, it should not be allowed to do recharge, since that would be like a super-duper-ultra "Energize". I am not sure what the math is on energize, but I know it can't be a s good as INT magic points for no cost.
Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:17 pm
James Paige wrote:
I am not sure what the math is on energize, but I know it can't be a s good as INT magic points for no cost.
+75 (+125 on critical).
Mega Tact v1.1
Super Penguin Chef
Wizard Blocks
Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:18 pm
Mogri wrote:
No. OMEGA is the only bot that cares about specific effects. Contract comes to mind, but it doesn't make sense to make Contract fool OMEGA, since it's not fooling anyone else.
Other bots do pay attention to effects, but only to what effect the effects have on their stats. They mostly don't care about effects on you, except insofar as those effects alter the damage they'd deal to you (Nigh-Invulnerability, for instance). I could make it fool them, but the overhead for doing so would be considerable because they don't have any "memory" currently and it would make them much dumber if they kept plugging away at you because they couldn't recognize that you were invincible.
It is, regardless, a lot of fun to use.
James Paige wrote:
Am I correct assume that it fools bot AI's too?
No. OMEGA is the only bot that cares about specific effects. Contract comes to mind, but it doesn't make sense to make Contract fool OMEGA, since it's not fooling anyone else.
Other bots do pay attention to effects, but only to what effect the effects have on their stats. They mostly don't care about effects on you, except insofar as those effects alter the damage they'd deal to you (Nigh-Invulnerability, for instance). I could make it fool them, but the overhead for doing so would be considerable because they don't have any "memory" currently and it would make them much dumber if they kept plugging away at you because they couldn't recognize that you were invincible.
It is, regardless, a lot of fun to use.
Don't they already "plug away" at you when you're invincible? I've seen them fail at attacking me while invincible man times.
Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:35 pm
I've seen that happen, too. They should just be using Recharge, though, and I think the underlying error has been fixed. Let me know if you notice that behavior again, though.
Mega Tact v1.1
Super Penguin Chef
Wizard Blocks
Mega Tact v1.1
Super Penguin Chef
Wizard Blocks
Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:53 am
I'll be picking up Maximize at the first opportunity. I've never really cared for randomized damage, that I can remember.
Absorb will actually be my next choice, because I like HP recovery(however nerfed).
I would go with Ensure if I was the sort to enjoy throwing status afflictions around, but I'm not.
Remeber: God made you special and he loves you very much. Bye!
Absorb will actually be my next choice, because I like HP recovery(however nerfed).
I would go with Ensure if I was the sort to enjoy throwing status afflictions around, but I'm not.
Remeber: God made you special and he loves you very much. Bye!
Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:20 am
I really like Ensure because it makes Prestige Shot a really good attack instead of a sometimes okay idea. Also adds extra punch to Head Trauma. I've treated Maximize as a no-brainer so far, but might should trade it in for something else. Delay or Enchant perhaps?
I think Extend giving 50-100% more rounds instead of a flat one would make it more viable. The just-one sounds good for stuff like Contract or Stoneform (or Reanimation! thank for the idea James), not breaking potential game-breakers, but for pretty much anything else it's not that special (except for almost old behavior from Super Shock, but i usually double-turn that when i use it anyway).
I think Extend giving 50-100% more rounds instead of a flat one would make it more viable. The just-one sounds good for stuff like Contract or Stoneform (or Reanimation! thank for the idea James), not breaking potential game-breakers, but for pretty much anything else it's not that special (except for almost old behavior from Super Shock, but i usually double-turn that when i use it anyway).