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Super rebalance time 
 PostFri Apr 17, 2009 6:08 pm
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Super Shock: Power dropped from 45 to 40, cost raised from 32 to 44 MP. Crit% lowered dramatically, crit duration lowered 6 to 4, normal effect changed from 70% chance for 3 rounds to 90% chance for 2 rounds.

Bowl Over: MP cost raised from 37 to 48.

Assassin's Dirk: Crit is no longer guaranteed. Instead, "critical chance" is halved (see Rules of Battle for how crit% is calculated). MP cost is lowered and only kicks in on a critical hit.

Final Sludgment: MP cost raised from 100 to 120. Still one of the most MP-efficient attacks.

Brick Bombard: You now have a N / (N+1) chance of hitting with each brick, where N is the number of potential targets. Power raised from 30 to 50, crit multiplier raised from 1.5 to 1.75. This makes Brick Bombard an attack that is worth its 82 MP cost.

The following table assumes your Str is at least 100 and does not factor in critical hits.

Code:
# enemies | total damage | damage to each target
1 | 225 | 225
2 | 300 | 150
3 | 337 | 112
4 | 360 | 90
5 | 375 | 75


So total damage goes up as number of opponents goes up, but damage per target goes down.

Thievery: MP cost reduced from 125 to 100.


Stupefy: Reduction changed from 25% to 35%. MP cost lowered from 37 to 34.

Did I forget anything?
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Re: Super rebalance time 
 PostFri Apr 17, 2009 6:56 pm
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Mogri wrote:
Did I forget anything?


What about the issue with Stupefy being a really terrible deal when compared to shrink ray?

Also, maybe it would make sense to add a new pure-damage no-debuff attack which would occupy a similar damage/crit profile that Super Shock used to occupy before these changes (with appropriate MP pricing, of course.)

I think such an attack would be a nice bridge for lower-level users when they reach the stage where "Split Splat" is obsolete, but they are not yet strong enough to use stronger attacks like sludgehammer special or dire wound.

EDIT: Oh, and also, Slimesworth is doing a whole lot of this in battle 1038

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Metal Slime
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Re: Super rebalance time 
 PostFri Apr 17, 2009 7:01 pm
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Mogri wrote:
Super Shock: Power dropped from 45 to 40, cost raised from 32 to 44 MP. Crit% lowered dramatically, crit duration lowered 6 to 4, normal effect changed from 70% chance for 3 rounds to 90% chance for 2 rounds.

So it's a weaker attack, weaker debuff, and more expensive?
I'm missing the trade-off here.
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 PostFri Apr 17, 2009 7:07 pm
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Quote:
So it's a weaker attack, weaker debuff, and more expensive?
I'm missing the trade-off here.

The tradeoff is that it's no longer overpowered.

Quote:
EDIT: Oh, and also, Slimesworth is doing a whole lot of this in battle 1038

Fixed, thanks.

Quote:
What about the issue with Stupefy being a really terrible deal when compared to shrink ray?

I knew I was forgetting something. See original post.
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Re: Super rebalance time 
 PostFri Apr 17, 2009 10:44 pm
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James Paige wrote:
Also, maybe it would make sense to add a new pure-damage no-debuff attack which would occupy a similar damage/crit profile that Super Shock used to occupy before these changes (with appropriate MP pricing, of course.)

I think such an attack would be a nice bridge for lower-level users when they reach the stage where "Split Splat" is obsolete, but they are not yet strong enough to use stronger attacks like sludgehammer special or dire wound.


I'm not sure what you're getting at here -- Split Splat is stronger than Super Shock (even before the nerf).

Here's a list of the traditional damage-dealers:

Code:
+----------------------+-------+
| name                 | power |
+----------------------+-------+
| Bounce Tackle        |    10 |
| Slam Shuffle         |    30 |
| Chain Combo          |    30 |
| Split Splat          |    50 |
| Bowl Over            |    55 |
| Chain Combo II       |    60 |
| Meteor Dive          |    90 |
| Head Trauma          |   100 |
| Chain Combo III      |   120 |
| Sludgehammer Special |   125 |
| Final Sludgment      |   200 |
+----------------------+-------+


If anything, we're missing attacks in the 70-90 Power range. I'm disinclined to make more "vanilla" attacks, since they're less fun to use, but I'll work on coming up with something to fill that gap.
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Re: Super rebalance time 
 PostFri Apr 17, 2009 11:02 pm
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Mogri wrote:

I'm not sure what you're getting at here -- Split Splat is stronger than Super Shock (even before the nerf).


Are you sure? Even after considering (old) Super Shock's good crit rate? I felt like I was doing more damage with it than with split splat on average (although maybe it just *felt* that way because of the debuf)

Mogri wrote:
Here's a list of the traditional damage-dealers:

Code:
+----------------------+-------+
| name                 | power |
+----------------------+-------+
| Bounce Tackle        |    10 |
| Slam Shuffle         |    30 |
| Chain Combo          |    30 |
| Split Splat          |    50 |
| Bowl Over            |    55 |
| Chain Combo II       |    60 |
| Meteor Dive          |    90 |
| Head Trauma          |   100 |
| Chain Combo III      |   120 |
| Sludgehammer Special |   125 |
| Final Sludgment      |   200 |
+----------------------+-------+


If anything, we're missing attacks in the 70-90 Power range. I'm disinclined to make more "vanilla" attacks, since they're less fun to use, but I'll work on coming up with something to fill that gap.


I guess Chain Combo is what I was really forgetting about.
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Re: Super rebalance time 
 PostFri Apr 17, 2009 11:28 pm
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James Paige wrote:
Mogri wrote:

I'm not sure what you're getting at here -- Split Splat is stronger than Super Shock (even before the nerf).


Are you sure? Even after considering (old) Super Shock's good crit rate? I felt like I was doing more damage with it than with split splat on average (although maybe it just *felt* that way because of the debuf)

Yeah, before I got Head Trauma or could use Sludgehammer Special, Split Splat had been my primary damager since the arena opened. Super Shock was better due to the debuff, but Split Splat had (and now even more so) the low cost going for it. It's basically the standard moderate attack.

EDIT: Re: CHAIN COMBO
So it was 120!
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 PostFri Apr 17, 2009 11:36 pm
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You can't really consider Chain Combo as a mid-range attack; it can't be purchased if you don't have enough Str.

Regarding Split Splat, it's what Unc says -- you might be right about the critical damage (the rate was unintentionally -- and ridiculously -- high), but Split Splat's much lower MP cost made it the better conventional attack. Super Shock was never intended to be an attack with an effect, it was intended to be an effect with bonus damage. It was criminally overpriced for its damage range, but the effect is way better than I had intended.

(edit) Taking another look, the old Super Shock was unquestionably better than Split Splat, and the new one is still better for Agi > 150 (Super Shock has a 2.5x multiplier).

(Psst, new ability shop. The taxonomy is questionable, but the organization is hopefully helpful!)
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 PostSat Apr 18, 2009 1:24 am
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Mogri wrote:
(Psst, new ability shop. The taxonomy is questionable, but the organization is hopefully helpful!)

Stupefy and Dire Wound are buffs? Otherwise, cool!
Super Slime
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 PostSat Apr 18, 2009 1:45 am
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Oops!

Removed the false positives.
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 PostSat Apr 18, 2009 10:17 pm
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In battle 1026, I just fumbled a brick bombard, but got charged Assassin's Dirk MP prices, is that right? I thought that you changed the Dirk to only charge the higher MP cost on a Crit, right?
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 PostSun Apr 19, 2009 12:27 am
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Yikes, you're right. Fixed, and I'll update your MP in that battle.
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 PostSun Apr 19, 2009 4:26 am
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Am I right in assuming that the dirk's only use now is that it makes crit's cost more?
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 PostSun Apr 19, 2009 5:13 am
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No. How would that be even a little useful?
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 PostSun Apr 19, 2009 5:41 am
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twas, kind of my point.
I mean if you compare it to sticky gloves.


sticky gloves, give you about double the chance to crit. plus no fumbles

dirk gives you double the chance to crit and charges you a lot more mp.


the dirk simply fails to compare.
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