Castle Clover: METACHAT

Gizmog · Post by **Gizmog** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:44 am

With regards to Galse's wish, I wasn't sure who to count as his friend for the purposes of the wish.

Definitely on the list are the original, non-homicidal members of the travelling party: Lynda, Tammytharn, Rachelle.

Included on the list for politeness sake are probably Rob and Dan.

After their war experience, Voulton has definitely earned his way onto the list. Galse is even tempted to go with Voulton, to protect him from Harvey and take advantage of having a good carpenter, but starting all over again, in his 40's? It's just too big a task.

Maybe on the list because he was shooting arrows at the bad guy even though he looks like a creep (and I guess they bonded looting bodies): Harvey

Probably on the list because he was the one who actually broke the curse: Jeremiah/Azedarac. Plus Voulton would've been able to tell Galse his side of the story and Rachelle also sided with the guy.

Should probably be excluded because he's a lich and doesn't eat or sleep: Kalar. But Kalar saved Galse from a boar right before they got to the inn, and he wouldn't forget that. Liches Welcome at the Noveau Inn of Bonne Joissance.

Am I forgetting anyone? Is there anyone who shouldn't be excluded or who historically pissed Galse off so bad he'd deliberately exclude them?

Spoonweaver · Post by **Spoonweaver** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:16 pm

I excluded those whom Galse has never really had a one on one conversation with.

Gizmog · Post by **Gizmog** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:10 am

Fair enough. Plus Azedarac's just gonna wish us all dead so it doesn't matter.

Feenicks · Post by **Feenicks** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:38 pm

So what was Azederac going to wish for, exactly?

Post by **Bob the Hamster** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:01 pm

Harvey's wish was solid gold, good thinking :)

Spoonweaver · Post by **Spoonweaver** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:15 pm

I explained on irc last night, but I'll post it here for those who'd like to know. Jeremiah was going to wish to be the king.
Then Stephen would have cursed him and his kingdom, thus bringing the whole campaign full circle.

Post by **Bob the Hamster** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:56 pm

Oh wow! So is Kalar going to be the big boss of a sequel campaign now? :D

Spoons, do you have more planned for this campaign now, or is it okay for me to open up the character-creation thread for my campaign?

Spoonweaver · Post by **Spoonweaver** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:12 pm

This is the official end of the campaign.

I hope you all had fun.

As far as some sort of sequel, I don't have anything planned out for it right now. If I do run one, it will be in a year or more and I would be happy running it after any other campaign that is running at the time, most notably yours James.

I look forward to being a player.

Gizmog · Post by **Gizmog** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:54 pm

I had fun but I am kind of bummed at the ending? It feels weird to end it on such a down note, like I don't see any of us having many options.

Maybe I'm metagaming, but it feels like Kalar was knocked unconcious to give us a chance to kill him before a "bad end". Yet taking away his ability to defend himself so that his friends can turn on him is pretty slimy.

And as his friends, it's a slimy spot to be in too. We can say "Yeah, he's evil and spooky, we totally burn the corpse, break his stuff and shatter all bonds of friendship now, while we have this chance" but we don't really have any evidence of wrongdoing?

Like, if it was "right" to kill Kalar, it's sad that the werewolf interceded on his behalf and makes it seem like we should wait? It'd be slimy to say "Someone else goes ahead and destroys his phylactery, because the werewolf can't stop that"?

To me, it feels like the whole campaign came down to asking BMR "Good ending or bad?" which is an appropriate level of responsibility for the only character to go start to finish, but it feels like he's between two statuses: Is he "The Final Boss" or is a "Fellow Player"? Would a Werewolf follower of Tammytharn's step in to defend the Final Boss? Would the Final Boss be given a chance to say "No" to being the Final Boss?

I think it would've been nicer had Kalar's discussion with Dispater been more like Lynda's discussion with Wee Jas, like... "Before you return, here's this ritual! Perform it on your plane and pledge allegiance unto me, and then your body will be my portal!" where Kalar would then have the choice to do it or not, and be free to choose his own post-campaign activities like the other players.

And if you wanted him to be the Final Boss/Sequel Hook, why even bring choice into it? Dispater can just say "Good work, Servant! I helped you out a bunch and now I'm cashing in my favors, you're the portal now, like it or not".

I guess the TL;DR is, I don't understand the final post. Why find the Phylactery? That's no evidence of wrong-doing, we literally just heard him wish to be a lich. That there's a phylactery is no surprise. And if we were meant to kill him and "missed our chance", Lynda was moving forward to destroy the phylactery and nothing came of that.

If this was a compromise to avoid the campaign ending in the players squabbling each other to the death, which'd leave a good taste in someone's mouth at the expense of someone else, then I can totally understand the compromise. But could you at least word it a little more upbeat? We broke the damn curse, saved the damn day.

Spoonweaver · Post by **Spoonweaver** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:03 pm

Kalar didn't fall unconscious to give you all a chance to kill him to prevent this ending.

Kalar didn't have as much choice as I played up him having. Dispater was kind of giving him a jrpg choice. "Do you want to die and become and evil portal?" [yes/no] {no} "But you gotta!" "Do you want to die and become and evil portal?" [yes/no] {no} "But you gotta!" etc...
What he was really choosing is how much favor he gained with his diety by making the correct choice.

I mentioned the phylactery as a tease of how close the party was to killing Kalar.

Attacking Kalar, though not uncalled for, was pretty unlawful. Being unaware of the finer points of Kalar's evil, the lawful werewolf stepped in to prevent an unjust act. It didn't prevent Kalar from dying.

Yes, I wanted to avoid the final conflict for many reasons, mostly because you all did win and deserve epilogues. (Which I'll post after discussing the plans you all have for each of your characters with each of you. )

Post by **Bob the Hamster** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:19 pm

Spoonweaver wrote:... Being unaware of the finer points of Kalar's evil, the lawful werewolf stepped in to prevent an unjust act....

I would even say that growing up with Tammytharn as adoptive Mom, he probably heard stories about Kalar that sugar-coated her memories of him, and glossed over the bad stuff.

Gizmog · Post by **Gizmog** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:35 pm

Bob the Hamster wrote: and glossed over the bad stuff.

He nuked their village, yo! That's a hell of a spin-job.

Gizmog · Post by **Gizmog** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:37 pm

Spoonweaver wrote:Kalar didn't fall unconscious to give you all a chance to kill him to prevent this ending.

Kalar didn't have as much choice as I played up him having. Dispater was kind of giving him a jrpg choice. "Do you want to die and become and evil portal?" [yes/no] {no} "But you gotta!" "Do you want to die and become and evil portal?" [yes/no] {no} "But you gotta!" etc...
What he was really choosing is how much favor he gained with his diety by making the correct choice.

I mentioned the phylactery as a tease of how close the party was to killing Kalar.

Attacking Kalar, though not uncalled for, was pretty unlawful. Being unaware of the finer points of Kalar's evil, the lawful werewolf stepped in to prevent an unjust act. It didn't prevent Kalar from dying.

Yes, I wanted to avoid the final conflict for many reasons, mostly because you all did win and deserve epilogues. (Which I'll post after discussing the plans you all have for each of your characters with each of you. )

Okay, that's fairly reasoned. I had a lot of fun in the campaign and if you ever run anything else I'd be there with bells on.

Post by **Bob the Hamster** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:41 pm

Gizmog wrote:
Bob the Hamster wrote: and glossed over the bad stuff.
He nuked their village, yo! That's a hell of a spin-job.

Haha! Good point!

Well, Tammytharn worships the god of Peace, not the god of Truth ;)

Spoonweaver · Post by **Spoonweaver** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:25 pm

Gizmog wrote:
Bob the Hamster wrote: and glossed over the bad stuff.
He nuked their village, yo! That's a hell of a spin-job.

I lol'd