Looking to assemble team for FF6-style MMORPG on androidOS

[Joseph]

Hello good OHR people,

I love the FF6-style RPGs we all played as kids and wanted to take that passion to the next level at a young age. When I stumbled upon OHR I fell in love instantly, like many of you no doubt have, and would work diligently for 6+ hours daily for a game that only maybe four people on earth have played. I want to get back to that dedication, but find it difficult when there isn't much incentive to do so. That's why I want to assemble a team to create a OHR-style game, but on the next level -- smartphones and appstores, where the incentive could be profit.

This isn't right up the OHR game-dev community alley, but I am looking for some talented programmers willing to get their hands dirty in a whole new medium -- android OS and possibly iOS. This would involve altering the very basis of the OHR source code, something I know that some of you do on a daily basis. The goal is to adapt the OHR engine to fit androidOS. It must also be expanded to include MMORPG capability. Creating an MMORPG on androidOS is likely the most difficult part, and I am in the process of looking for outside help for this specific problem.

I know many of you have many many wonderful ideas for FF6-style gameplay and storyline -- it's a dream of mine to bring these strengths together into a great game we can profit from. If we translate OHR into the android world with MMO capabilities, the game will explode -- that is my true goal. After these necessary steps, all we have to do is make the game -- for which I have many many good ideas. I'm putting up a budget of $2000 to get this thing moving -- if you have experience with the source code of OHR, let me know how difficult you think this project will be. If you have experience with androidOS AND ohr, contact me directly. You can let me know what your thoughts/opinions are at klutchkings@gmail.com or you can post in this thread. I'd like to make this as honest and open a discussion as possible. I know the OHR community is passionate about FF6-style games, but likely lack the programming knowledge of the platform we'd like to move to. I see many of you making games but cannot distribute them for money because they 1. must be played on PC's and 2. lack the professionalism of a real team where everyone can work in their respective talents.

Plus, it would make for a freakin' SWEET game!!

Happy gaming!

Joseph

PS I also posted an ad in the androidOS game-dev forums: http://www.anddev.org/jobs-teams-f24/

I'll keep yall updated.

[JSH357]

I think a lot of us like older rpgs because they don't resemble MMOs at all

[Mogri]

It would be easier to write it from scratch than to adapt the OHR engine to AndroidOS and then add MMO capability on top of it.

I am really curious what a "FF6-style MMO" would be, though.

[TMC]

Whoa

Android and iOS ports of the OHR are something I absolutely want to see, and I'll be damned if they never happen. The main thing holding us up is that FreeBASIC is still x86-only. (On Android we can use the NDK instead of using Java.) There are two solutions to the problem:

* For a couple of years now, the FB devs have been working on an emitter which generates C code instead of x86 assembly, however it's still very experimental and progress on it seems very slow. It's <a href="http://rpg.hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce ... c">nowhere near</a> being able to compile the OHR yet. Since the OHR's codebase is somewhat unusual, I wouldn't be surprised if I eventually have to do some work on FB myself to get it support the OHR. However the FB source contains an insane number of layers of abstraction that make it difficult to understand anything without a 3 page long flow chart next to you.

* I started writing my own FB compiler/translator to C++ a couple years ago and made good progress. There's still hope for it, I think I could get it to compile the OHR with a month or two of work.

I started work on supporting resolutions other than 320x200 early this year, but haven't done any more work on it since. A lot of the low-level work is finished; what remains to be done is mostly just to rewrite all the built-in menus (e.g. shops) to use resolution-independent slice collections.

Now, having said all that, modifying the engine to make MMORPGs doesn't sound very promising. There's a huge difference between adding network capabilities and adding MMORPG features. So it just doesn't make much sense to try to use the OHRRPGCE rather than an MMORPG engine which is already written in language which can ported easily to Android. See <a href="http://rpg.hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce ... pg%3F">Can I turn my game into a mmorpg?</a> for some suggestions.

[JSH357]

Yeah sorry if I sounded negative in the first reply, I am actually rather excited about being able to port OHR games to Android some day, just not this particular project I think.

[Master K]

This project sounds very interesting...but, I shall not hop aboard. I can barely script games as it is, let alone the jumbled, confusing source code of the editor, and god forbid it be onto Android or iOS. And, my working schedule would be crippled due to school upcoming. The profit aspect sounds cool aswell, but I wouldn't be able to accept any.

But, if you ever do finish the game, tell me if I can get it on Ipod, as I might see into getting it, if it ain't too expensive.

[Bob the Hamster]

I do indeed really want to get the OHR running on Android and iPhone, but it will probably take a long time, and won't solve the issue of Multiplayer.

I actually got an Android tablet the other day (Motorola XOOM) and have been really pleased at how easy it is to develop for. I have downloaded and installed the Android Development kit, but all I have used it for so far is the tool to push files to the device.

I have been playing with <a href="http://pygame.renpy.org/">Pygame Subset For Android</a> and was delighted with how easily I was able to port my old python game <a href="http://james.hamsterrepublic.com/stegav ... gavorto</a> to it.

It is also cool that it only costs $25 to be able to sell on the Android Market, whereas it costs $99 to be able to sell on the Apple App Store.

[FnrrfYgmSchnish]

If we translate OHR into the android world with MMO capabilities, the game will explode

Funny that you say that... my first thought upon seeing "FF6-style MMORPG" was "wouldn't that just explode and kill everyone, like mixing matter and antimatter?"

Porting the OHRRPGCE to other platforms is probably not such a bad idea, though. I mean, we've already got a Mac port (and I think Linux? not sure off the top of my head), and some of the phones these days are starting to be more like mini-computers with unusably tiny keyboards (or touch screens) rather than phones... so why not?

But making it into a "MMORPGCE"... can't say I really like that idea much.

[Joseph]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

* For a couple of years now, the FB devs have been working on an emitter which generates C code instead of x86 assembly, however it's still very experimental and progress on it seems very slow. It's nowhere near being able to compile the OHR yet. Since the OHR's codebase is somewhat unusual, I wouldn't be surprised if I eventually have to do some work on FB myself to get it support the OHR. However the FB source contains an insane number of layers of abstraction that make it difficult to understand anything without a 3 page long flow chart next to you.

* I started writing my own FB compiler/translator to C++ a couple years ago and made good progress. There's still hope for it, I think I could get it to compile the OHR with a month or two of work.

This does sound like a necessary step if we are to see the OHR on android. FreeBasic doesn't seem to be all that far reaching. Some quick research tells me that there are a few things to try in this regard, although the OHR programmers will know best. There appears to be a lot on the subject of converting freebasic to c already -- are we certain that such an acceptable conversion tool doesn't already exist?

Now, having said all that, modifying the engine to make MMORPGs doesn't sound very promising. There's a huge difference between adding network capabilities and adding MMORPG features. So it just doesn't make much sense to try to use the OHRRPGCE rather than an MMORPG engine which is already written in language which can ported easily to Android. See Can I turn my game into a mmorpg? for some suggestions.

But making it into a "MMORPGCE"... can't say I really like that idea much.

It seems that the MMO idea is not all that popular. I agree it will be extremely difficult to do such a thing, but without multiplayer capabilites I don't think such a game would be all that popular. The MMORPG aspect is negotiable, but I feel that a game like this must be at least multiplayer to draw a large audience.

Now, I have messaged a team on the MMORPG forums (http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/t ... Jun11.html) that is interested in creating a 2d MMO, but appear to be lacking art and story personnel. I mentioned this thread and my idea of merging the two platforms. On the surface they seem to have a ton of information we would need.

I don't think you should reject the idea of an MMO just because it will be next to impossible to implement. The idea itself would surely yield some excellent FF6-style gameplay.

I am really curious what a "FF6-style MMO" would be, though.

This is the easy part, heh. There's no reason why there can't be an MMO in the 2d RPG world. My ideas center around gameplay: A monumental range of character customization, giant range of craftable and droppable items, professional music, deeply strategic turn based battles, etc -- keeping the structure of classic rpg gameplay, but expanding on it. I also have ideas like removing the level cap for heroes, and removing the damage and health cap. But this is the fun part in imagination land that will come after its platform is more defined. I'm sure you all have many excellent gameplay ideas as well!

[Alk]

I feel like the difficulty of this project would be very high. I also feel it would be best to do this project from scratch not OHR. That being said, if you are looking for a project from scratch I might be interested in doing graphics. I am also personally curious to what kind of talent you have. Do you program? Write music? Graphics?

[Joseph]

I feel like the difficulty of this project would be very high. I also feel it would be best to do this project from scratch not OHR. That being said, if you are looking for a project from scratch I might be interested in doing graphics. I am also personally curious to what kind of talent you have. Do you program? Write music? Graphics?

I agree it will be very difficult -- but these large projects become possible when we break it down into logical, small steps. The first step that I propose is to collect information about how androids work; what programming languages they function in, and how it relates to the OHR. Then, what sort of networking expertise is required to field a multiplayer game. With the right team, this is surely possible.

I will write the music unless I get strong negative feedback from it -- but I doubt that will happen I have many years experience using FL studio and its plugins.

I have only rudimentary knowledge of programming, so I need to leave that to others. Same with drawing graphics.

I feel like the best thing I can do, however, is organize and find members for the team, and incentivise them as best I can. The talent is surely on the internet to get these things done -- but the talented people need to first be found, then convinced that the project is worth working hard on. That's perhaps my main purpose in all of this -- but obviously help is always accepted. At any time, a programmer may come up to me and say 'Hey, I like the idea. Let's explore our possibilities' -- that's what I'm shooting for. But until then, it's a search for that.

But don't worry, we're already taking a great step! Discussing and sharing skepticism.

[Bob the Hamster]

The first step that I propose is to collect information about how androids work; what programming languages they function in, and how it relates to the OHR.

Android devices have Arm processors, and run the Linux kernel. They do not have a complete GNU/Linux operating system, but they seem to have a pretty decent subset of it.

The main language for Android is Java.

You can also develop for any other language that is compatible with Linux systems and Arm processors. I know many Android games are developed in C or C++

Whatever language you use, you do need some kind of Java wrapper around it.

There is more information about all this at http://developer.android.com/guide/index.html

As for how this relates to the OHRRPGCE:

The OHRRPGCE is written (mostly) in FreeBasic. Freebasic does support Linux, but it currently only compiles for 32-bit Intel processors. it has no Arm processor support.

The FreeBasic Devs are working on a gcc backend which will allow FreeBasic to be compiled for any target that C/C++ can compile for. As tmc pointed out before, they might need his help to get this working well enough to compile the OHR ;)

Once some method of compiling the OHRRPGCE code for Arm processors is working, then we can start on the Java wrapper that will allow it to run on Android. I plan on imitating the model used by the "Pygame Subset For Android", because it think it will be very well suited to OHRRPGCE games.

There will be an "OHRRPGCE Game Player" app in the Android Marketplace. it will be free, and it will allow people to play .rpg files from the external SD card in their Android device.

People who want to distribute their game as a standalone App in the Android Market will be able to use tools from the Android SDK to build their own renamed copy of the "OHRRPGCE Game Player" .apk file with their own game included. Then they can sign up for an Android Marketplace account and sell the .apk file through there.

[Spoonweaver]

What I'd like to see is Joseph throwing some of his $2000 at TMC (and maybe James) to get a OHRRPGCE Android app up and working.
I mean, I know TMC can do it, he just has other responsibilities that come first. Money might be able to change the order of his responsibilities though.

What do you say Joseph?

[Mogri]

This is the easy part, heh. There's no reason why there can't be an MMO in the 2d RPG world. My ideas center around gameplay: A monumental range of character customization, giant range of craftable and droppable items, professional music, deeply strategic turn based battles, etc -- keeping the structure of classic rpg gameplay, but expanding on it. I also have ideas like removing the level cap for heroes, and removing the damage and health cap. But this is the fun part in imagination land that will come after its platform is more defined. I'm sure you all have many excellent gameplay ideas as well!

I guess I'm not really sure what makes this FF6-style.

By the way, there's at least one compelling reason you don't see tile-based MMORPGs: player characters take up space. Think of how often you've had to wait for an NPC to move out of your way -- and that's just single-player, with no one griefing or anything. You can let PCs pass through each other, but that comes with its own host of problems.

[Spoonweaver]

@Mogri: Players take up space in a game called TIBIA. It's still got thousands of players. In fact taking up space really adds to that game.